Professor Xorus is researching the dates the cities of Elanthia became available for adventuring. He’s missing some – can you help, old-timers? I know some of you are at LEAST that old!
We were having a debate and was wondering if anyone or a GM could let us know the order in which the towns were released in game.
Date: 04/29/2017 12:37 PM CDT
From: OM1E5GA
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
I’m sure there’s someone that knows better then me (maybe Krakii will chime in) and I’m not a GM, but I’m fairly certain this is accurate:
-Landing -Teras -either Icemule or River’s Rest (both were considered brand new when I started in the AOL days and I’m pretty sure they were introduced within a couple months of each other) -Zul Logoth and Elven Nations -Solhaven
I’m not exactly sure where Mist Harbor fits in. I know premium accounts were introduced before EN was around, but I’m pretty sure there was just a building in each town for characters to utilize at first. Whether the town came about before EN or in response to it escapes me (I was most likely on a break from GS at the time).
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Date: 04/29/2017 01:21 PM CDT
From: LUXELLE
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
There was a month or two when Simu went to the web that people were in touch with me telling me all about the new things in GS (trying to tempt me back). Icemule was mentioned as a special new town where people started out in the sentence after Teras.
I’m thinking that means Icemule predates River’s Rest. Nobody ever tried to tell me about River’s Rest back then.
But we really should have an official listing of this and put it at the wiki for posterity!
— Rohese: “… the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)”
Date: 04/29/2017 01:49 PM CDT
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
I replied to the email, but it doesn’t look like that migrated back to here yet.
Teras beat out Icemule.
.
Gwen(? pretty sure, but not positive)/GM Lyredaen (Eric/GM Banthis’ [eventual] wife) was talking about the upcoming opening of the Elven Nations at ‘Con when it was still in the Henry VIII, which means either 1999 or 2000. (Hotel was bulldozed later that year.)
Date: 04/29/2017 07:27 PM CDT
From: NAAMIT
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
> Gwen(? pretty sure, but not positive)/GM Lyredaen (Eric/GM Banthis’ [eventual] wife) was talking about the upcoming opening of the Elven Nations at ‘Con when it was still in the Henry VIII, which means either 1999 or 2000. (Hotel was bulldozed later that year.)
Thank you for this Krakii, it made me go do some searching! That was in 2000. As it so happens, EN opened in 2001 according to our own wiki.
Some timeline-
Move to web: 1997 Solhaven: 1998 Elven Nations: 2001 GSIV Conversion: 11/2003 Mist Harbor: 2004 Cysaegir: 2004 or 2005 (pretty sure it’s the latter)
Date: 04/30/2017 01:03 AM CDT
From: OM1E5GA
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
<There was a month or two when Simu went to the web that people were in touch with me telling me all about the new things in GS (trying to tempt me back). Icemule was mentioned as a special new town where people started out in the sentence after Teras.>
<I’m thinking that means Icemule predates River’s Rest. Nobody ever tried to tell me about River’s Rest back then.>
Both Icemule and RR had been around for at least a couple years before the move to the WEB (which marks the end of the AOL days). It’s also not surprising it wouldn’t have been mentioned by folk trying to lure you back to GS at that point as most people saw it as little more then a curiosity like the Abandoned Village then a real town at that time (it had an inn, bank, gemshop, and pawnshop by then, but not much more).
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Date: 04/30/2017 05:50 PM CDT
From: CLUNK24963
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
River Rest was before IceMule. We used to have to put crystal amulets in a boot to get to River Rest, and I remember folks exploring the path to IceMule back in ’95 or ’96 or so.
That happend about the time Clunk Like_A_Rock ceased to be (dearly departed), and Clunk LikeARockSon came to the Landing. The elder never knew of Mule.
Is River Rest not recorded in the Kulthea journals?
Clunk
(Buy your swords at CBD weapons in Zul Logoth.)
Date: 04/30/2017 07:22 PM CDT
From: CLUNK24963
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
So, I just reviewed what I could, and found no mention of either the giant boot or IceMule in the older K journals.
The oldest log I could find was from March 15, 1998, where someone was asking about whether a history of all the towns would be written, and named IceMule and River Rest. So both were in existence by that time.
The Wiki indicates the boot ended in 2001, that it was created by Ssyssanthis (?), and that Ssyssanthis came to River Rest in 2006. So wiki is suffering from the different perspectives on history, just a typical history thing, or could we say “wee bit of wiki wonky”.
Anyhow, I have a gap of about five years in what is quickly available for review but recall is: giant boot in the kobold village, then Icemule, then the boot went away and was replaced by a barrel ride.
Historian Thuunk
Date: 04/30/2017 09:23 PM CDT
From: LUXELLE
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
Mister Clunk … River’s Rest never existed in ICE Age GemStone. That much I can be very sure of. So … none of the oldest newsletters will have that.
— Rohese: “… the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)”
Date: 05/01/2017 12:24 AM CDT
From: OM1E5GA
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
<The Wiki indicates the boot ended in 2001, that it was created by Ssyssanthis (?), and that Ssyssanthis came to River Rest in 2006. So wiki is suffering from the different perspectives on history, just a typical history thing, or could we say “wee bit of wiki wonky”.>
Syssanis was the one that created the portal in the boot approx 100 years before present day. When I went to check what you were talking about I was thrown for a loop too until I realized the year the boot was destroyed was “5101” and the years he was in RR was “between 5006 and 5014”.
If we keep looking at just the last two numbers we’ll have to form a Y2K club….
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Date: 05/03/2017 06:52 PM CDT
From: CLUNK24963
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
>>Syssanis was the one that created the portal in the boot approx 100 years before present day. When I went to check what you were talking about I was thrown for a loop too until I realized the year the boot was destroyed was “5101” and the years he was in RR was “between 5006 and 5014”.
>>If we keep looking at just the last two numbers we’ll have to form a Y2K club….
Oh yeah, +100.
So, Luxelle I think has it right also. The other source I checked was an old capture of Zepath’s maps. Those showed the kobold town, but not the kobold dirt mine. The way to the glacier was not on his maps.
I’m guessing that checking the dating on Tsorans maps might be a good way to confirm River Rest came years before IceMule.
My personal recall (faulty at best) is that travel through the boot was something done while on AOL, and IceMule came right before transfer to the Web. My fourth or fifth or sixth character (Furrfeet LikeAtart or something like that … long gone now) was rolled specifically for the new town of IceMule Trace, and the older version of Clunk was gone at that point.
Clunk
(Buy your swords at CBD weapons in Zul Logoth.)
Date: 05/03/2017 08:32 PM CDT
From: FURROWFOOT
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
>Furrfeet
I DEMAND RECOMPENSE! Teehee.
Date: 06/16/2017 02:04 PM CDT
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
Speaking as we were of blasts from the past…
(And obviously, this was posted after the Isle actually opened. DeICE was about 6-8 months behind us, AOL had not yet gone to unlimited, and the move to the web was another 14 months in the future.)
Category 4 Topic 37 Message 90 Wed May 22, 1996 GEMSTONE [Fawn] at 09:53 EDT
Whether they like it or not, it’s time to give credit where credit is due. If you don’t want to know who did what, skip this post. 😉
Teras Isle Project Leader: Banthis Design Circle Leader: Quill Creation Circle Leader: Cyper Quality Control Leader: Miriani
Lava Flows
Designed by Mikos Creation by Jaxxon, Gorlash and Mikos (I believe)
Ruined Village
Area Design by Kygar Creature Design by Fawn (with much assistance from Laertus) Area Creation by Fawn with much assistance by Zulkata Additional Rooms (don’t know how many found these yet) by Mhorigan Creature Creation by Laertus Banshee Design and Creation by Raemus (long ago)
Inside the Volcano
Area Design by Cyper and Draug Creature creation by Cyper Area Creation by Cyper and Draug
Kharam-Dzu
Area Design by Mhorigan Area creation primarily by Mhorigan, with additional rooms by Athina, Gabrina, Gorlash, Quill, and others, I’m sure. 😉 Merchant Mechanics by Quill and Laertus Merchant Inventory by Pandemon Deed Puzzle by Giacomo CoL Puzzle by Jaxxon and company Local Quack by Draug Another thing you haven’t discovered yet by Mhorigan, Quill, and Fawn Lockpicking Services by Quill Pawnbroker by Quill Goose and Hound by me. :> History by Mhorigan and Sayzor Locker Relocation by Modrian (some other stuff you haven’t figured out yet by Modrian) Taverns, Pubs, Bars, and Inn menu mechanics by Gorlash Hog’s Pen by Stump (not sure if others helped here, but probably 😉 Whining Elf by Gorlash and Mhorigan Adventurers’ Rest by Modrian and Athina Constable System by Cedrus and Cyper (heh, bet you didn’t think there was one) Another shop that is not yet open <g> by Luthus
Rainbow Glaes Mine
Area Design and Creation: Fawn Ferryboats: Banthis Creature Design: Fawn and Banthis (long ago) Creature Creation: Banthis
Teras Isle
Keeper of the Map: Stump (a tough job!) Locate Changes: Wolv Teleport Changes: Draug and Cyper Familiar Changes: Banthis Treasure Changes: Issigri New Gems: Fawn Connecting Areas: Stump Death Mechanics: Banthis
The Glaesen Star
Ship design: Mikos Engine Creation: Giacomo Movement Effects: Mikos Scheduling: A constant debate by pretty much everyone 😉
Quality Control Team
Miriani, Cedrus, Issigri, Wolv, Mikos, Romulus, Von, Gyrfaucon and others. Note, this process is ongoing and will be for awhile. 😉
Additional Rooms here and there: Everyone
I hope this doesn’t come across as self-serving. It’s just that I am really proud of these folks and want to recognize all their hard work. 🙂
If I’ve forgotten anyone or gotten confused on who did what, my deepest apologies. I’ll be happy to post corrections. 😉
Fawn
Date: 06/18/2017 05:03 PM CDT
From: GAROFALOA
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
Fawn was good people.
I miss her. :/
Date: 08/07/2017 06:57 PM CDT
From: INIQUITY
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
There is no place for Icemule to exist on the Jaiman continent map, and River’s Rest would have had to have been de-ICE’d if it was put on a southern coast. The Seolfar Strake (Lysierian Hills) are the northwest top coast of the continent, and the east top side is a volcanic wasteland called Ja’miil Targ. Teras could have been a made up isle at any time, but was not until after the De-ICE. The two Elanthian Herald newsletters from “Winter 1995” and “Spring 1996” mention none of them. Then the 1.5 year letter gap.
1989: Squire’s Bluff 1990: The Landing 1996: Teras Isle 1996: Icemule / River’s Rest 1997: Luinne Bheinn / Aillidh Brae / Dubh Brugh 1998: Pinefar (very early 1998) 1998: Solhaven (late 1998) 2001: Zul Lugoth / Ta’Illistim / Ta’Vaalor / Old Ta’Faendryl (ambassador announced trail in mid-2001) 2004: Cysaegir (first map was mid-2004)
Tsoran’s maps do not help much for prioritizing Icemule and River’s Rest. His first update for River’s Rest is June 30th 1997, and for Icemule it was September 9th 1997. I was in Icemule before that map date for RR, it was on AOL before the Web shift. Tsoran did not start chronicling map updates until mid-1997. The Kobold and Hob Villages were 1995/6-ish. I do not feel like splicing through the Vvrael quest records to figure out whether Pinefar was the very beginning of 1998 or if it was very late in 1997.
– Xorus’ player
Date: 08/07/2017 11:27 PM CDT
From: LUXELLE
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
All right let’s fix a couple date points for you.
1988: GemStone II, aka Squire Bluffs. I don’t think I have anything left that can fix this date to a month. 1989: Kelfour’s Landing was the only city when GS3 opened late in the year. 1995: De-Icing, Fall. There was no Teras or Icemule before it was de-Iced.
I have no personal knowledge from that night forward until 2014. But I think there are people still playing GS who can help.
I’ll get Miss Newsby to point to your questions here about the additional cities.
~L.
— Rohese: “… the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)” ;tune towncrier
Date: 08/08/2017 01:23 AM CDT
From: INIQUITY
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
Heh. I knew you were going to push the year back on the first two. I was rounding and started splitting hairs later in the list because there were things in the same year.
But the GEnie launch of GSII was April 1988, so that one was me being careless. I thought 1989 was closer to covering most of it.
– Xorus’ player
>throw shade You cannot throw a lesser shade!
Date: 08/08/2017 01:27 AM CDT
From: LUXELLE
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
I am always happy to live up to your expectations. 🙂
— Rohese: “… the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)” ;tune towncrier
Date: 08/08/2017 08:29 AM CDT
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
I don’t think I have the post–I know, you all are SHOCKED!–but I recall Fawn saying that she had initially worked on Teras Isle as a room-building exercise, and then it just sat there for a while. When there was a sudden need for a large influx of rooms (due to a large influx of annoying snerts, and all of their long-time high-paying customers saying, “OMG let me get AWAY from them, please?!?!?!”), she dusted it off and presto! 20th level limit on getting to Teras Isle.
As some of you may know, Simutronics Corporation has had a license from Iron Crown Enterprises (ICE) to use Rolemaster trademarks and game mechanics in the game GemStone III, since the game first opened in 1989.
<snippage>
Date: 08/08/2017 03:24 PM CDT
From: ELYSIA
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
I am giving up no great secrets here, as those of you who lived in GS3 knew full well who I was. 🙂
Here are the dates as best I recall them. I no longer have any surviving email from those years, but do still have a bunch of crumbling old notes that I just reminisced over with a cup of tea.
Most of the geographical “sprawl” took place during the years I worked, since we had 2000-2500 players concurrent on a normal evening and were trying desperately to give people more room to play.
1. All I.C.E. proprietary names changed, including the (then, only) town of Squire Bluffs – conversions date to fall 1995. October sticks out in my mind. We actually went down for some time to handle it iirc, but I have lost many brain cells since then. (Per the agreement, players got to keep personal items with “old” names unless a GM has to handle them, so the conversion was for all the environmental things, from place names to static merchant shops, certain creature names, etc.) At one point I know I had info on this exact date with the downtime conversion and everything but I can’t find them now, so was likely only in my long vanished email.
2. Kharam Dzu (Teras Isle) – Early May 1996 – again from memory because I don’t have the ethered email with an exact date. Indeed chosen to release next because Fawn had done construction work there and everyone jumped into help finish All The Things, as AOL had gone flat rate and Elanthia was swarmed with peoples. So many peoples. Peoples… everywhere. Peoples stacked YAY HIGH. NECK DEEP ON A GIANTMAN.
2. IceMule Trace / River’s Rest – Late winter or spring of ’97. But not on the exactly same date, iirc. Just both in early ’97. Again with the email.
3. Vornavis / Solhaven – Nov/Dec 1997. Don’t know the exact day. I contributed to this but didn’t lead it (I think that was Mhorigan) so my notes are quite sparse.
4. Elven Nations expansion (included Zul Logoth, Ta’Illistim, Sylvarraend, Ta’Vaalor, etc.) – September 2001. Again I can’t recall the specific day, but guarantee you it was a Saturday. I do have somewhat fond memories of watching you all push each other off the river rope until you figured out you needed to cooperate. (No, I did not design that rope over the river, do not blame me for your endless stuns! But I won’t deny that I might possibly have chuckled. A little. 😉 ). All kidding aside, it was a joy to watch people explore there when it opened.
Some other dates you might like:
First Enormous Mithril Juggernaut: March 1997, I think. I do not recall any runs before this one. Dorf tunneling ship that moved underground. Earthquakes, baby! Ran 2 or 3 more times in the next few years with mixes of existing and new merchants. GM Mhorigan’s pride and joy iirc! Wear your Jug pins with pride!
The First Ebon’s Gate: first run October 30 – November 1, 1998. I talked Banthis into organizing a Halloween merchant festival with me (because we lived in an apartment and never got any trick or treaters, sniffle) by threatening to haunt him from the afterlife if he didn’t comply. So he did (and eventually got into the spirit of things). Lots of GMs built lots of great stuff for it. People liked it so much we kept doing it, and you guys still run it today (although I suspect the fairgrounds have changed many times over since the original area). We roleplayed Moirae the Seeress and Eldred the Seer, for those of you who remember being haunted by our ghasts. 😉
First Festival of Oleani: May 14-16 1999, ran for several subsequent years. I’m not sure it’s seen the light of day since I left. It was a 3 day May Day / Beltane festival in a hamlet called Blaeston Village. Full of faeries, bonfires, fireworks, scored games and rides, gambling, a bard competition, and lots of merchanty goodness (Xieanth the Faery says “Hi!”).
Foehn’s Promise: July 1999. Elven airship giant merchant event, loosely centered around House Loenthra to celebrate the playable instruments we released that year. Like the Jug… but in the air, not in the dirt. 😉 I have no idea if it’s been run since! (Fun fact: Considered putting in airship transport over the Dragonspine Mountains to get back and forth from EN… but decided on foot through the wilderness and under the mountains would be better, because you could go anytime you wanted, rather than wait for a scheduled “long journey” flight (like you wait for the Glaesen Star).)
Date: 08/08/2017 03:47 PM CDT
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
<poke>
Pretty sure Squire’s Bluff was GS2, because I was in Kelfour’s Landing already in III on GEnie.
Date: 08/08/2017 04:12 PM CDT
From: ELYSIA
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
Yep, that.
I wish I still had emails from that time. I could nail down more actual date numbers.
In the meantime, another “blast from the past”, from an alter-ego. 🙂
Opening day of the path under the Dragonspine to the Elven Nations:
Anhgrim sweeps a courtly bow.
Anhgrim murmers some words of magic and gestures at the shimmering wall. Without a sound, the wall sparkles brightly, then explodes into a colorful rainbow that sends sparkling colors across the area. When the colors fade, a forest to the northeast becomes visible.
“Hear ye, Hear ye!
I am Anhgrim Lewthoraen, special ambassador from her majesty Queen Myasara of House Illistim.
I bring you her message. Please, pay attention, for I shant be bothered to repeat it.”
Anhgrim sniffs boredly.
“Over the last three years, we have undertaken some exploration and trade with your peoples. It has proven to be… shall we say… profitable to us.
After careful consideration, we have decided that it would be in the best interests of the United City-States to further these relationships. As a showing of good will, we have sent scouts to spy out trails through the wilderness. In cooperation with the dwarves of Kharag ‘doth Dzulthu, we have arranged travel through the very heart of the DragonSpine.
By decree of her majesty Queen Myasara of House Illistim, and with the collective approval of the United City-States, Queen Cadhla of the Loenthra, King Tyrnian of the Vaalor, King Eamon of the Ardenais, and Queen Rhosyn of the Nalfein, we hereby declare our borders open for trade and travel.”
Date: 08/08/2017 04:23 PM CDT
From: ELYSIA
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
Also, I just stumbled on my notes for the Ilyan Cloud event.
This was the first elven merchant ship to visit. The dates on my work documents are early January 1999 so assume the event ran within a few weeks of that date – January or February 1999.
Some parts I feel comfortable posting, from what I wrote back then to prepare people to work during the event. (I honestly have no idea how elven lore has evolved since I left, so keep in mind this is what I wrote *in 1999* while I was planning for EN expansion).
Elven Skyship Fast Facts:
Name: Ilyan Cloud Home Port: Ta’Loenthra Owner/Captain: Calum Gaothaire
People of Interest:
Current Loenthran Monarch – Queen Cadhla Loenthra
Useful Terms:
Ilyaner- What the merchants and sailors aboard the Ilyan Cloud call themselves. A pet name.
Wayfinder- The ‘navigator’ of the Cloud. In elven airships, the navigation and control of the ship is accomplished through the use of telepathic ability coupled with magical devices in place of a helm or rudder.
Brou Setche- [brow SEECH] The act of gaining mastery of the sky and navigation of the wind by a Wayfinder. This is taught at Ta’Illistim by learned sages and is an age old tradition. “Mangus the Wayfinder reached his Brou Setche at the turning of the third moon this year.”
Daenlach- [dain-LASH] Blooded. Of the Blood. Someone who is Daenlach is considered ‘royal’ blood of the House. Someone who is Nai’Daenlach [Near the Blood] would be considered connected, but not of true blood. Much like marrying into money. [Arcarius whispers to Ilyana, “It is said that Mangus himself is Nai’Daenlach, however who would let him in to the Inner Circle is anyone’s guess.”] Nae’Daenlach are very rare, and Daenlach are rarer still. Merchants would not be of the “blood”.
The Cloud: A pet name for the ship. “Ilyan Cloud” comes from a family name ‘Ilya’ from Loenthra.
Date: 08/08/2017 04:48 PM CDT
From: INIQUITY
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
Icemule and River’s Rest could have been very early ’97 rather than later ’96. But Solhaven/Vornavis sounds one year off. Tsoran released all of the first / initial maps for them on January 1st/2nd 1999. The roof explosion and opening of Bonespear Tower was January 3rd, 1999 because Truekillr wrote about it happening “last night” on the 4th.
The “Timeline of Elanthian History” document also lists it as 5098 Modern Era. This was from the history forum on March 14th, 1998:
Mhorigan says, “One caveat as to your questions. “When does Solhaven open,” or “When do we get to face the Vvrael directly”
are probably things I’m gonna be vague about ;)”
Mhorigan says, “As to the Landing, its role in the world will be made clearer when Solhaven and the surrounding cities open…”
I’m really annoyed now that I can’t find the original name of Teras Isle. It was stated in an announcement when Fawn left. I think the saved copy was on Tsoran’s website which is down now. It started with a G, maybe it was something as simple as Ghorsa Isle, but that does not sound right.
– Xorus’ player
>throw shade You cannot throw a lesser shade!
Date: 08/08/2017 04:50 PM CDT
From: EREK
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
Moirae and Eldred were the best.
Date: 08/08/2017 04:54 PM CDT
From: INIQUITY
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
I have a saved copy of that Ahngrim announcement with a file date of 6/1/2001 (Friday) taken from a message board post dated May 31st, 2001.
You see Ambassador Anhgrim Lewthoraen the Elf Troubadour.
He appears to be in his 130’s, has shoulder length, wavy black hair, green eyes, and tanned skin.
He is in good shape.
He is wearing a pair of brown leather boots, a soft tooled brown leather tunic
trimmed in shimmarglin agates, a dark leather pouch, an enruned golden circlet, and a brown velvet
cloak trimmed in shimmering golden glimaerstones.
Date: 08/08/2017 04:56 PM CDT
From: EREK
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
<I’m really annoyed now that I can’t find the original name of Teras Isle. It was stated in an announcement when Fawn left. I think the saved copy was on Tsoran’s website which is down now. It started with a G, maybe it was something as simple as Ghorsa Isle, but that does not sound right.>
Seems like I remember Suz saying that she was modeling it after an island within Rolemaster lore. I still have all those old sourcebooks, so I’ll try to look it up, although Ghorsa sounds very familiar. What never got built, and I really wish it had, was Eidolon the floating city. What became the Ilyan cloud actually was originally designed as a ship that would take travelers to Eidolon itself. It was re-purposed as a merchant vessel later.
Date: 08/08/2017 04:58 PM CDT
From: ELYSIA
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
It’s possible that Solhaven was held back well into 1998. The portions of the town that I personally built were completed in the late fall of 1997. So I know it could not possibly have been any earlier than that. I wasn’t PM’ing that one so I just don’t have good notes, other than the pieces I personally contributed to it in late ’97.
The release date for the entire area would have been dependent upon all the associated hunting areas and creatures being completed, too, so that may have been the work getting done in the intervening months.
Date: 08/08/2017 05:19 PM CDT
From: INIQUITY
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
<<What never got built, and I really wish it had, was Eidolon the floating city. What became the Ilyan cloud actually was originally designed as a ship that would take travelers to Eidolon itself. It was re-purposed as a merchant vessel later.>>
Flying down to Emer to go to Sel-Kai / Eidolon would have been awesome.
<<Seems like I remember Suz saying that she was modeling it after an island within Rolemaster lore. I still have all those old sourcebooks, so I’ll try to look it up, although Ghorsa sounds very familiar. >>
Whatever the name was I remember it sounding unfamiliar from that context. The Dwarves in Shadow World were mostly from the southern hemisphere, so if that was the hook maybe something in the sourcebook dealing with Govon. The Jaiman sourcebook said there were two “subterranean kingdoms” on this continent, but only specified the Grantok Clan in the Grey Mountains neighboring Rhakhaan/Zor which are the ones in the Melgorehn’s Reach story.
On Jaiman the Isle of Aranmor had a volcano along with imprisoned demons and temples to dark gods, so if it was very loosely based it could have been that one?
– Xorus’ player
Date: 08/08/2017 05:24 PM CDT
From: ELYSIA
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
Aww that’s awesome. I did make him look pretty snazzy (or is that snooty?) did I not? 🙂
Date: 08/08/2017 05:29 PM CDT
From: ELYSIA
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
“I have a saved copy of that Ahngrim announcement with a file date of 6/1/2001 (Friday) taken from a message board post dated May 31st, 2001. “
Also, that helps me piece together something in my notes that didn’t make sense.
We released Ta’Illistim in June, and Ta’Vaalor later in the summer.
Here are the messages I used from the clearance of the path to Ta’Vaalor. You would have seen these if you were in the room waiting for the barrier to be dropped. Obviously there would have been a pause between each one, and a bunch of chattering players waiting. 🙂
The sound of saws grinding through wood comes from behind the fallen tree.
A large group of elves climbs over the remaining sections of the tree trunk, eyeing the assembled crowd with suspicion.
The elves gather into a small group, pointing at the tree and discussing its position and weight.
A burly elven worker shouts some orders to a group of workmen standing beside the tree.
Gathering along one side of the tree, the workers start to push and shove the remaining section of trunk towards the side of the road.
After budging the trunk but a few inches, the workers stop to rest. Leaning against the trunk, one elf stares openly at the crowd, shaking his head in amusement.
“Back to work!” one of the elves calls. The group gathers once more at the tree and begins to push.
Ever so slowly, the trunk rolls towards the side of the road. The elves strain and heave with all their might against the massive tree.
With a final lopsided roll, the trunk tumbles off the cobbled roadbed and into the ditch beside the road. The elves pull themselves up, panting with the exertion of moving the tree.
“Alright, alright. Don’t trample each other on your way down the road!” one of the elves calls, rolling his eyes.
Entire Elven Nations area received this message:
A runner comes by, shouting, “The work crews have cleared the fallen tree from Sylvarraend Road! Ground passage to Ta’Vaalor is open once more!
Date: 08/08/2017 05:34 PM CDT
From: GS4-MIKOS
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
>>3. Vornavis / Solhaven – Nov/Dec 1997. Don’t know the exact day. I contributed to this but didn’t lead it (I think that was Mhorigan) so my notes are quite sparse.
I believe Solhaven opened on Nov. 18, 1998, but it was definitely Nov. ’98. I’m surprised anyone on staff would have thought it was Mhorigan’s project. I set aside working on Solhaven for a while when we all joined in to build Teras, but I was lead on Solhaven from concept to completion…including South ‘Haven.
Mikos
Date: 08/08/2017 05:42 PM CDT
From: ELYSIA
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
So for those playing along that puts these dates, which match up with my files:
Kharag ‘doth Dzulthu & Ta’Illistim: June 1, 2001
Now – my personal practice tended to be to write event messaging within no more than a day or two before I needed it. The opening messaging for Ta’Vaalor, posted below, was written on September 29, 2001.
That was a Saturday, which is the only day of the week I would have done an opening. (I had a hellacious day job.)
So you can pretty much peg Ta’Vaalor at September 29, 2001. 🙂
Date: 08/08/2017 05:44 PM CDT
From: EREK
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
‘sup, Mikos. 🙂
Date: 08/08/2017 05:44 PM CDT
From: ELYSIA
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
!!! I heard you were still here. 🙂
I don’t know why I confused it – except I was on his team at the time, and perhaps thought it came from him b/c of that.
I have no notes about it other than some NPCs and a shop I contributed to it, dated late 1997. 🙂
Date: 08/08/2017 06:18 PM CDT
From: CLUNK24963
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
>>After careful consideration, we have decided that it would be in the best interests of the United City-States to further these relationships. As a showing of good will, we have sent scouts to spy out trails through the wilderness. In cooperation with the dwarves of Kharag ‘doth Dzulthu, we have arranged travel through the very heart of the DragonSpine.
So, if it helps in reconstructing the histories, I’m fairly sure Thuunk gave the Elven Diplomats a tour of Cavernhold at some point prior to the opening the paths to the Elven nations. I do remember several folks scouting about in the year or two prior trying to figure out what path they had followed to get to the Landing. Somewhere in there, the Caravansery that appeared near the Zetoth mountain (close to Hetoth if I recall well) went with the opening to Solhaven. It confused me as a player when characters spoke about the Caravansery for the longest time because I was getting the dwarven outpost confused with the outpost near Sol, with the caravan that took folks to Phannus.
I may have logs still reachable from that, but, its REAL work to dig it all up.
Is all good though, we wouldn’t be able to have discussions about perspectives on history if everybody saw the same things all the time. That makes it much easier to roleplay it out without worrying too much about conflicting with the ‘official’ histories. (Them elves, they don’t know dwarf history no matter how sophisticated they say it!)
Clunk
(Buy your swords at CBD weapons in Zul Logoth.)
Date: 08/08/2017 06:19 PM CDT
From: GS4-MIKOS
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
Good to see you guys back! Didn’t realize you’d returned until just now with the forum posts.
I returned May of ’13 as a player and came back on staff Sept. of ’13, so I was gone for eight years. It’s been good to be back, though.
A lot hasn’t changed, and a lot has. Hope you both enjoy it enough to stick around.
Date: 08/08/2017 06:23 PM CDT
From: CLUNK24963
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
Clunk still forges.
Thanks for coming back, Mikos.
Clunk
(Buy your swords at CBD weapons in Zul Logoth.)
Date: 08/08/2017 06:29 PM CDT
From: INIQUITY
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
Tsoran’s first map of Old Ta’Faendryl is dated 12/22/2001, and his first “initial version” of the Ta’Vaalor map was 9/30/2001.
I mean, Old Ta’Faendryl is technically a hunting ground, but it’s also one of the cities. Icemule vs. RR I do not know.
– Xorus’ player
Date: 08/08/2017 07:33 PM CDT
From: INIQUITY
Subj: Re: What came first the chicken or the egg!
Updated List
April 1988: Squire Bluff December 1989: Kelfour’s Landing May 1996: Teras Isle Very Early 97? (*): Icemule & River’s Rest January 1998 (*): Pinefar November 1998: Solhaven & Vornavis May/June 2001: Zul Lugoth & Ta’Illistim September 2001: Ta’Vaalor December 2001: Old Ta’Faendryl July 2004: Cysaegir
(*) Tentative
Which is not including little settlements like the reivers, kobolds, the various abandoned villages, or the Elven Village. Pinefar was a handful of months before The Rift came out, which was slightly after Easter (April) 1998. I tracked down Aephir / Ian last month to ask about all of the comparative mythology and other references I’ve found buried in the Vvrael quest related areas. Unfortunately, a lot of what I wanted to know was done by the room painters, and he lost his own design notes in a computer crash 10 years ago.
Valyrka was asking about the Seethe Naedel Observatory maybe a couple of years ago. She wanted to know if the unconscious girl was there in the original release or if some event happened later where she turned up. I never saw it at the time, so I did not know. I just know Banthis originally designed it much earlier as a shrine of Valris.
– Xorus’ player
HSN WEEK 6: CYSAEGIR – THE AELOTOI SANCTUARY · on 7/19/2004 1:12:20 PM 745
After navigating a trail wrought with dangers and possibly a lost guide, a group
of brave adventurers have stumbled onto the elven-renovated village for the Aelotoi,
Cysaegir. Meaning "Sanctuary" in their native Aelotian, Cysaegir welcomes
all who would visit this quaint village.
Cysaegir can be located off of Whistler's Pass in the Elven Nations.
