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Wyrom Talks Numbers, Subscribers, Silvers

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Wyrom reveals some numbers about GemStone, silver drains, increases in subscribers, and a promise to start releasing Ebon Gate information – soon. You data nerds will love it – and you know who you are!

http://bit.ly/2iPiVQN

Category: Discussions with Simutronics
Topic: The Bad, and the Ugly (general complaints)

Date: 08/24/2017 04:27 AM CDT
From: BRANDTJRT
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
>>1. Scheduling: please can you give enough advance warning of dates so that CHEs and MHOs can try to work around them.

Just as a thought, since the events are otherwise occuring in regular-ish months, maybe a couple slots could be reserved for CHE/MHOs? I know Frontier Days has a dedicated week for that, but perhaps some prechosen weeks throughout the year could also be set aside?

_ _ _
Wyrom gestures at you, causing you to explode.


Date: 08/24/2017 07:36 AM CDT
From: LORDEVARIN
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
I second the suggestion to provide slots for CHEs and MHOs to plan around where official events will not be held, with as much heads up as possible as to when these will be. It shouldn’t be too hard to do, as I imagine specific holidays and times of year are avoided due to RL scheduling conflicts.


!>tell child to be quiet
The child cries, “I don’t wanna!”


Date: 08/24/2017 08:12 AM CDT
From: ARCHSENEX
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
Also, I believe for CHE’s the lead time is more accurately 5-8 weeks. Since the event request has to be in by the 4th of the month before the event request, the bare minimum is 4 weeks.

MHO’s seem to get a little more flexibility and only need to provide a hard 4 weeks notice.

And we’re probably in the wrong folder to REALLY discuss this issue, but I agree that with the ramped up event schedule, MHO/CHE/Player events seem to be much harder to execute. I also think that we really should discuss that somewhere less… loaded.


Date: 08/24/2017 08:32 AM CDT
From: VANKRASN39
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?

>6 pay events a year. If these events are going to last for 2 weeks each time, which seems to be the norm, then this is where I have an issue.

I know your situation, absolutely feel for you, and only want to try to provide you with some facts.

The digs and Arena have been 10 days since the event stabilized into its current state. The tentative Aug dates were announced back in May for this run, I know that’s still probably too late for your needs, but 3 months is pretty good considering we don’t know the EG merchant week yet. When tentative dates are announced, unless something catastrophic happens (not even padding/weighting/sighting changes stopped this from starting), the dates are pretty firm. 3 days were added onto the end, but the general dates were there.

The pay event schedule is every other month starting in February, so Feb, Apr, Jun, Aug, Oct, and Dec there will be a pay event of some kind. That’s a guideline to start scheduling around.

I also like the idea of a blocked out weekend a month (or every other month in non pay-fest months), decided on a pattern (e.g. first weekend), that are reserved for player events.


Date: 08/24/2017 08:48 AM CDT
From: KRAKII
Subj: CHE/MHO events {was: game gone}
Wyrom’s post read like the events were (roughly) scheduled for every other month starting this past February. So, even-numbered months.
Organized groups, plan for odd-numbered.

.

Step two. Have you considered having your mini-event inside of the pay event? Yes, it means that attendees would need to go into the pay event. On the other hand, if they have not yet gotten an SC pass for <whatever it is>, the House–as a generic term, could be either CHE/MHO–could see if they want to sponsor ‘scholarships’ to get some SC passes.
(And you never know: Simutronics may be willing to spot you some passes, maybe with restrictions on them like “may only be given to non-House members for this specific use”, or whatever. As I keep pointing out in various contexts: if you never ask, the result is ALWAYS [and already] ‘no’; only IF you ask/make the request, can you possibly get a ‘yes’ result.)
Hell, buy some books, and sponsor events–with an entry fee–in the non-Duskruin quarter (seems like they run 6 months apart?) with ticket books as prizes. People may be willing to attend your event and even pony up to compete (like at a county fair) if it might save them some SimuCoin down the road.

I’m looking at things like “build a 3-Team” for the Arena, and you’re having contests for scores. Highest total score, ties broken by faster time; bracketed by level; <fill in some other details>.
You could also do solo runs. Better statistics are generated by larger fields, so do them as ten-ticket cycles.

Where were the dolls, Delirium Manor? Doll-building contests. “We’re looking for pirates. Best outfit wins, voting by officers.” (Do this in September, on National Speak Like A Pirate Day. Aarrrrr.)
(Maybe it’s possible to have Simutronics open a run of the venue JUST FOR YOUR EVENT? If you don’t ask, guaranteed ‘no’; if you DO ask… maybe ‘yes’.)

.

I’m out. Time for a second cup of coffee.


Date: 08/24/2017 10:53 AM CDT
From: TRIPLEGAME226
Subj: Re: CHE/MHO events {was: game gone}
When you realize that there’s a cash grab event going on 25% of the time now.

http://i.imgur.com/DRSovrk.gif

~ Methais


Date: 08/24/2017 11:38 AM CDT
From: WORLDTECH
Subj: Re: CHE/MHO events {was: game gone}
<When you realize that there’s a cash grab event going on 25% of the time now.

http://i.imgur.com/DRSovrk.gif

~ Methais>

If we just paid more than 15-40 a month for a text based game ran by volunteers, they could have Simucoin gambling 50% of the time!


Date: 08/24/2017 12:49 PM CDT
From: SHEN1
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?

<<I’ve said repeatedly that the problem is not for those who sell silvers for cash. I don’t much care about that either. The problem is much worse for those who would rather pay silvers, but items are no longer available for silvers, because silvers are worthless. Those who buy and sell cor cash will continue to do so and will go about their merry way. It’s people who like to hunt and earn a decent number of silvers and then spend them. Those are the ones who will be left holding the bag.

Kerl>>

I want to make sure this is seen another time.

Aurach


Date: 08/24/2017 02:40 PM CDT
From: NAAMIT
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
Kerl’s player says: “I’ve said repeatedly that the problem is not for those who sell silvers for cash. I don’t much care about that either. The problem is much worse for those who would rather pay silvers, but items are no longer available for silvers, because silvers are worthless. Those who buy and sell cor cash will continue to do so and will go about their merry way. It’s people who like to hunt and earn a decent number of silvers and then spend them. Those are the ones who will be left holding the bag.”

Echoing this once again for good measure.


Date: 08/24/2017 03:00 PM CDT
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
For as many times as that has been copy/pasted, it’d be nice if someone fixed that ‘cor’ to a ‘for’. <mutter>

.

Also, let’s remember that it is OTHER PLAYERS deciding to act in the described fashion. (Who, let’s be honest, if they’re not selling for in-game silvers, were most likely looking for out-of-game currency to begin with.)
And players have always been able to refuse to sell for, well. Any reason at all, really.


Date: 08/24/2017 03:33 PM CDT
From: ARCHIGEEK
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
If only I could go back and fix it. Typing on the phone is not my forte.

And Krakii, the reason people are avoiding selling for silvers is what I described in the other paragraph: no one wants to end up with silvers as they’re plummeting in value. You sell something for silvers and right now, you could lose a good chunk of value the next day. We dropped from $6/mil to $5/mil in basically a week. That makes people reluctant to make deals for silvers, or to effectively force the person who wants to buy with silvers to take most of the risk by paying a higher price than the person who might pay cash. In the stock market, they refer to trying to peg the bottom on a falling stock to “catching a falling knife”. I think it’s a pretty appropriate comparison. There are a lot of people who’ve become reluctant to do a deal in silvers who would have been very happy to do so several months ago.

On the other hand, you can I can continue to do trades! Trades are always good.

Kerl


Date: 08/24/2017 03:42 PM CDT
From: AMMINAR
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
If only I could go back and fix it. Typing on the phone is not my forte.
And Krakii, the reason people are avoiding selling for silvers is what I described in the other paragraph: no one wants to end up with silvers as they’re plummeting in value. You sell something for silvers and right now, you could lose a good chunk of value the next day. We dropped from $6/mil to $5/mil in basically a week. That makes people reluctant to make deals for silvers, or to effectively force the person who wants to buy with silvers to take most of the risk by paying a higher price than the person who might pay cash. In the stock market, they refer to trying to peg the bottom on a falling stock to “catching a falling knife”. I think it’s a pretty appropriate comparison. There are a lot of people who’ve become reluctant to do a deal in silvers who would have been very happy to do so several months ago.
On the other hand, you can I can continue to do trades! Trades are always good.
Kerl

I guess I posted in the wrong thread yesterday, but maybe a reason silvers are so cheap is because you can effectively buy them now for $4/million or less, if you buy Duskruin booklets and sell them for silvers. So current prices may not reflect the intrinsic value of silvers, but rather a temporary cheaper way to buy silvers if you’re so inclined.

Have to wonder what will happen to silver prices after Duskruin closes (and this avenue of buying silvers disappears), especially as EG approaches.


Date: 08/24/2017 03:52 PM CDT
From: DOUG
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
>>because you can effectively buy them now for $4/million or less

This is correct. What’s missing is it had a lifespan of 30 minutes (approximately). It no longer serves as such a vehicle for silver exchange comparison. And my belief is if it is undertaken again, this particular facet will be closely considered in the future pricing scheme.

Whether it is considered and the values placed so silvers are lower or higher relative to the active secondary market at that point in time – I offer no opinion.

Doug


Date: 08/24/2017 03:58 PM CDT
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
“On the other hand, you can I can continue to do trades! Trades are always good.” — Kerl

I’ll be honest, I haven’t really grokked the complaints against multiple currencies and why they’re such a bad thing. I’ve been doing four different kinds of transactions for years:
– for silvers
– for PremiumPoints
– for items
– for services (primarily Major Enchantments)

(That latter one is more typically called ‘barter’, but still.)

As long as the buyer & seller at the time of the transaction both feel that it is a fair deal, I think we’re all good.

I have signally stayed out of the dollar market, but I would rather see dollars flowing to Simutronics (for putting on the game) rather than some bozo with time on his hands to run a script (for farming silver in the game put on by Simutronics).

But I don’t see any reason why I wouldn’t be willing to also deal in Scrip, or Scrip, or Scrip, or Seashells, or whatever. (Aside from, you know. My oft-stated reluctance to attend for-pay events of any kind in order to actually, you know. Come into possession of such.)

.

And maybe I’m looking at this too much like looking back at the 1929 stock market crash. The day before, you owned (let’s say) 10 shares of ACME Corp. They made widgets. The day after, you still owned 10 shares of ACME Corp. They still made widgets (for a while, until they closed up). People who needed widgets still wanted to buy them, in order to keep THEIR businesses running. It’s just that you could not sell your shares of ACME Corp for anything, which is why they eventually closed up.
So ten days ago, you–not Kerl, but some Generic Player–had 150M silvers. Yesterday, you still have 150M silvers. Your possession hasn’t changed. These are shares in ACME Corp.
What you could buy, by GAME MECHANICS (any shop or service put on by Simutronics, to include live merchants), has not changed one iota. Your widgets still function perfectly, exactly as designed.

What has changed, is the willingness of other people to swap their dollars (items) for your shares of ACME Corp (silvers).


Date: 08/24/2017 04:37 PM CDT
From: ZENDADA
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
As it is right now I like the Simucoin model for items/services with an alternate currency. I mean like right this second as we are all discussing this and Simu is feeling things out. Should things change from this point my opinion may change as well.

Before the store and Duskruin if I wanted anything above vanilla gear I would have to have been extremely lucky at a raffle or had to buy silvers for cash because of the high prices and my casual playing style. Now I can pay a modest event sized price and walk away with nicer gear, a decent amount of silver from selling loot, and some nice toys. With the wide variety of prizes available I can hone in on the one big item I want and judge if it is worth my time and money to get. In the past the prices of items on the open market dictated that I either spend massive amounts of time farming silver or buy into the silver for cash market should I even find that one high priced item I wanted.

It appears to me at this time that the market is still very fluid and even. On the open market I still see items offered for silvers at nearly the same prices as always, BS for silver sales, and cash for items, silvers, and BS. Yes, I have seen the price of silvers go down but I also remember when they were lower before they were higher.

What I don’t mind seeing, and providing at my level of comfort, is more cash flow for Simu. Overall, to me the casual player who still logs in every day for the boost rewards and schedules time off for certain events, this system seems to be working very well. I can buy in at the level I want with the money going straight to Simu and I can also participate on the market as well because it has not disappeared or even slowed down much as I can see it.

This ongoing conversation is unlike any I have ever seen between customers and an company. It’s amazing really. We’ve all seen things change on the fly when people speak up with legitimate concerns. Even this very run we had someone at Simu listen to our concerns and sell us booklets for silvers. That kind of attention to customer’s concerns gives me confidence that Simu, at this point in time, is at least trying it’s best to be fair and still deliver a product that we all love.

I would not want to see things devolve into pay2win. I absolutely would not want to see every event, new item, script, customization, etc. locked through the Simucoin paywall. I would be equally disappointed if the open market turned strictly cash as well. Right now seems like a really good balance.

Chad, player of a few


Date: 08/24/2017 04:46 PM CDT
From: AMMINAR
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
This is correct. What’s missing is it had a lifespan of 30 minutes (approximately). It no longer serves as such a vehicle for silver exchange comparison. And my belief is if it is undertaken again, this particular facet will be closely considered in the future pricing scheme.
Whether it is considered and the values placed so silvers are lower or higher relative to the active secondary market at that point in time – I offer no opinion.
Doug

The fact that the official sale went so fast only indicates that the secondary market price for booklets is likely HIGHER than 10m. If so, you can effectively buy silvers for even cheaper. (Anyone know the actual going rate for booklets in silvers?)

Maybe no one is interested in buying booklets for 10m silvers anymore now that the official sale is done, but I doubt it.


Date: 08/24/2017 04:59 PM CDT
From: DECK
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?

I’d rather pay 10mil to Simu NPC for a book, than 8 mil to a person trying to scrape up a profit.


Date: 08/24/2017 05:09 PM CDT
From: DOUG
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
The fact that the official sale went so fast only indicates that the secondary market price for booklets is likely HIGHER than 10m. If so, you can effectively buy silvers for even cheaper. (Anyone know the actual going rate for booklets in silvers?)
Maybe no one is interested in buying booklets for 10m silvers anymore now that the official sale is done, but I doubt it.

I agree. But since it doesn’t exist any more, speculation isn’t useful. Fear itself is doing some of this damage. I want to limit that fear by bookending the speculation. It’ll be fun to pick it up again when / if this situation returns and we can discussion more than a sample of 1.

Doug


Date: 08/24/2017 11:13 PM CDT
From: AMMINAR
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
I’d rather pay 10mil to Simu NPC for a book, than 8 mil to a person trying to scrape up a profit.

This only really makes sense if you’re completely opposed to the cash market for silvers, and would never ever sell silvers for cash. Even if you are, I’d argue it’s a far lesser evil since the “profit” really goes to Simu: person pays Simu for object of value, then sells it to you for silvers. They get silvers, you get something you value for silvers, Simu gets the profit.

I agree. But since it doesn’t exist any more, speculation isn’t useful. Fear itself is doing some of this damage. I want to limit that fear by bookending the speculation. It’ll be fun to pick it up again when / if this situation returns and we can discussion more than a sample of 1.

“Speculation”? “Doesn’t exist anymore”? Unless I’m missing something, anyone can go to the SimuCoin store right now, buy a book, and sell it in game for silvers. Not sure how this is speculative or scary or doing damage (except to the profits of silver farmers/traders in the near-term).


Date: 08/24/2017 11:31 PM CDT
From: DOUG
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
Unless I’m missing something, anyone can go to the SimuCoin store right now, buy a book, and sell it in game for silvers. Not sure how this is speculative or scary or doing damage (except to the profits of silver farmers/traders in the near-term).

Yep, right you are. I crossed a poster and a wire (reading comprehension really is fundamental), and thought you were referring to the recent books directly sold for silver, which you did reference in another post. But your analysis isn’t targeted there, and so I was responding inaccurately to your point.

Mea culpa – say on!

Doug


Date: 08/25/2017 12:33 AM CDT
From: GAROFALOA
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?

>Just to clarify – Forest Armor was never available outside of a pay event.

And i’m still salty that i didn’t get the T2. I GOT EVERYTHING ELSE. 😛


Date: 08/25/2017 10:45 AM CDT
From: DECK
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
my comment
I’d rather pay 10mil to Simu NPC for a book, than 8 mil to a person trying to scrape up a profit.
your comment on my comment
This only really makes sense if you’re completely opposed to the cash market for silvers, and would never ever sell silvers for cash. Even if you are, I’d argue it’s a far lesser evil since the “profit” really goes to Simu: person pays Simu for object of value, then sells it to you for silvers. They get silvers, you get something you value for silvers, Simu gets the profit.

Your misunderstanding completely – which I should have anticipated, by giving an NPC 10 mil, for something a player would sell me for 8, I effectively having those silvers removed from circulation, the profiteers should be cheering at what I said if they had business sense. From Simu’s business perspective, they want the profiteer to do his thing for the reasons you specified..


Date: 08/25/2017 12:52 PM CDT
From: AMMINAR
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
Your misunderstanding completely – which I should have anticipated, by giving an NPC 10 mil, for something a player would sell me for 8, I effectively having those silvers removed from circulation, the profiteers should be cheering at what I said if they had business sense. From Simu’s business perspective, they want the profiteer to do his thing for the reasons you specified..

I guess I am misunderstanding. Are you rooting for higher silver prices so the profiteers can stay in business, and you think the removal of silvers from the game in these quantities will have a significant impact on silver prices? In any event you seem to dislike the “profiteers,” so I’m not sure why you’re taking a position that you think would make them cheer.

My point is, I think the SimuCoin-playersale-silver route sucks for the “profiteers” because it’s a cheaper way to effectively buy silver, so they can no longer profit from silver sales like they once did (their would-be customers now have a better way to buy silver). Unless profiteers are themselves using this route to buy silver cheap now, and sell it later when silver prices recover… that’s possible. But maybe real-world silver prices won’t recover, because this method will become the most common and economical way for people to buy silver.

I’m not sure that would be such a terrible thing, as it would reduce the incentives for people to generate massive amounts of silver for sale (it would also support the game rather than the silver farmers). So, sounds great to a casual player like me who never trades in silvers for $… my own loot won’t be as cheapened by silver farmers (even if it ends up being cheaper in real world $, which I don’t care about). The in-game value of silvers could also rise (fewer farmers = decreased total supply) even as the $ value of silvers stays low. I’m open to persuasion, though.


Date: 08/25/2017 03:22 PM CDT
From: DNA428
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?

eventually people will realize farming bloodscrip is easier than silvers and will devalue just the same


Date: 08/30/2017 02:35 PM CDT
From: JHYNNIFER
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
>>You’re definitely free to your opinions. If you’re not having fun with GemStone IV, there is nothing stopping you from finding a new source of entertainment. We’ll be here though if you want to come back. We’ll likely be a bit bigger though (we peaked 700 online the other night for a short while).

This is a bunch of days later, but I’m just catching up on the official forums. Three separate forums is a lot to handle and try and keep up to speed on everything.

I’m really, really tired of this line being used. It’s so disappointing. You may not mean it as an insult, and perhaps some people don’t see it as such but perception is the reality. As far as I’m concerned, you’re practically saying “Hey, I know we’re basically changing the way this game has run for the past 20+ years to a new high subscription-fee PLUS simucoins for a lot of the new high-end stuff, but now we’re also going to take something that’s a GS tradition and make that simucoin based as well. But if you don’t like these sweeping, pricier changes nothing’s stopping you from cancelling your account. Don’t let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.”

That’s how I see it, that’s how some others see it. It’s a hard pill to swallow and instead of flippantly tossing out this “don’t like it, don’t play” line, try and sympathize with that part of your playerbase that doesn’t like change in their 25 year old text based game. Many of us want to be a part of GS, we want to give you our subscription money… we even want to give you simucoin money because we love the game and we want it to stay around forever. But when you start taking things that we’ve built tradition on, that we’ve played in a specific way for almost a decade (I’ve been back 7 years so I’m going with numbers I’m familiar with) and you change their structure and tell us that if we want to play this event the SAME WAY we did last year, well it’s probably going to cost us more, it chaffes. Rubbing salt in the wound is telling us “if we don’t like it, unsub” or “don’t like it? Don’t attend the event.” You’re changing an event we love and we’re upset about it and that is not the appropriate response. You guys are SO much better than this. You show how much you care in the work that you do, please don’t undermine those efforts by acting as if our concerns don’t matter.

Try a little understanding here. You might be amazed how many ruffled feathers can be soothed with a softer touch.


Date: 09/01/2017 06:55 AM CDT
From: KALAH
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
What is the incentive to hunt, earn silvers, or even grind the game out if it isn’t to earn silvers?

I used to do it to find cool box finds. Now the only way to get that level of item is to pay a bunch of simucoins and dig it out of the ground? Which do you think is more fun?

The issue with silver devaluation is huge, and it will lead a lot of people to turn away from the game. I’m glad simucoins are breathing life into this game, but I feel like there needs to be a real reason to play that incorporates those items that you’re essentially charging simucoins for.

A lot of these issues (and more money for Simu/staff) could be generated if you increase the player base and reduce the amount of silver production. Ideally, you would have a static amount of silvers that would be recirculated. You could get more people to play the game more often too if there was a truly stable simucoin:silver conversion.

Gemstone is getting into a position that it could really blow up (in a good way) if there was decent advertisement and marketing on popular gaming platforms such as Steam. I may be in the minority, but if you want long term growth, you should aim for the kids (just like cigarettes). I started playing when I was 14, and I’m still here (and now spending money regularly, apparently).

Without at least growth like this, I think the game might wither away (or at least feel like it is).

[As an aside, I hope you guys look at growth in terms of new subscriptions or independent IP addresses and not new F2P accounts – too many people have F2P armies that overinflate the number of active players IMO)


Date: 09/01/2017 06:57 AM CDT
From: KALAH
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
>>A lot of these issues (and more money for Simu/staff) could be ELIMINATED if you increase the player base and reduce the amount of silver production.

Fixed


Date: 09/01/2017 07:01 AM CDT
From: ARCHSENEX
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?

Wyrom has posted details on subscriptions. The game is larger now than in 2008, and population (paying accounts) is growing. We are regularly having more and more people.


Date: 09/01/2017 10:30 AM CDT
From: KALAH
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
>>Wyrom has posted details on subscriptions. The game is larger now than in 2008, and population (paying accounts) is growing. We are regularly having more and more people.

That makes me very happy – I am one of those people who would love to see >1000 players online again.


Date: 09/01/2017 10:47 AM CDT
From: ARCHSENEX
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?

>> That makes me very happy – I am one of those people who would love to see >1000 players online again.

I think we hit 700 recently. Wyrom has shared that unique logins per day is much higher. From the sound of things, players today play for shorter windows, one or two hours.


Date: 09/01/2017 10:59 AM CDT
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
With offline absorption, I’m a big fan of logging in before work, after work, and before bed.
(Coincidentally, I have three [3] ‘mana spellup’ available…)
Bard’s medley lasts 9 minutes or so, hunt to full, stop singing, logout; come back and it’s all absorbed.


Date: 09/01/2017 11:15 AM CDT
From: ARCHSENEX
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
>> I used to do it to find cool box finds. Now the only way to get that level of item is to pay a bunch of simucoins and dig it out of the ground? Which do you think is more fun?

there SHOULD be no difference in the quality of what you get out of boxes and the treasure system. most of the people who are talking about silver de-value are talking about the buying power of silver in order to get things that have never been in the treasure system, such as buying auction wins on the secondary market etc. There’s also some concern about buying power at festivals, for rare services.

However, I don’t think anybody has been claiming that the treasure system itself is giving out reduced quality. A separate discussion is whether or not that quality is attractive to players, but I don’t think that’s the claim here.

Also, the W/P/S Changes are huge in terms of “something to do with your silvers.” So for people just looking for self-sufficiency, you now have a way to get what used to be pretty restricted gear, through solely your own effort.


Date: 09/01/2017 12:32 PM CDT
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
While I’ve been optimistic in my posts about this, too, I will cautiously append a, “…just as soon as we see the first ‘for-silver’ use of this system,” to Archsenex’ comments. 🙂


Date: 09/01/2017 12:42 PM CDT
From: SIMU-WYROM
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
>>[As an aside, I hope you guys look at growth in terms of new subscriptions or independent IP addresses and not new F2P accounts – too many people have F2P armies that overinflate the number of active players IMO)

>>That makes me very happy – I am one of those people who would love to see >1000 players online again.

The numbers I speak about are only our paid subscriptions. We actually closed August up 3% from July. That puts us up 17% in the last 12 months and 28% since the beginning of 2015. We have more accounts today than we did in January of 2011. We’re about neck and neck with numbers 10 years ago.

F2P accounts are tracked separately, and yes I know who’s generally tied to whom.

When I mentioned we were at 700 the other night, I know some chatter was saying most of them were F2P. This isn’t accurate. The raffle caused a surge in logins, but it blocked F2P users, and the F2P users on at that time were about the same as they are all the time (about 10% of online users). Without raffles and such going on, we been hitting low to mid 600s every week lately. This is up from 350 just 3 years ago.

Keep in mind, the average user only plays about 80 minutes a day. It’s likely a lot less than that, because I’m not tracking median and all the 24/7 accounts screw that number up. That 80 minutes does exclude people in less than 5 minutes a day though (since I wanted to isolate LOGIN REWARDS and people just checking quick things).

>>Silvers

I know I’m being quoted about silver production a lot, with figures of about 2 billion a month. The actual number is about 18 billion a year, and that’s including heavy farming sessions. The number does go up every year though, because more people are more efficient at gathering silvers. We have heavier months (usually months that don’t contain a pay event), so at a glance and without combing the numbers, it looked like about 2 billion a month, when the reality is closer to 1.5 billion a month (still a lot).

I also mentioned that if we look at December 2016 when the auctions were launched, we’ve drained more silver than produced. This means I’m looking at December 16th as a day where silver production is considered 0. This was using the first batch of booklets for sale for silver. The second batch wiped out, collectively, another billion. Most people aren’t insanely wealthy, and the insanely wealthy aren’t the ones buying the booklets. This means we removed a collective amount of wealth in game.

Another facet in all this is a lot of silvers are removed on a daily basis. People use silver-based services like the NPC locksmith or town merchants. You might go, Wyrom, it can’t be THAT much. Well in the last weeks, town merchants (like the armory or the grocer) drained 67101622 silver.

You also have to recognize that more people can make silver these days than 10 years ago. More people can buy the things they want directly instead of through the secondary market. We offer more services and items in larger quantities these days as well. Rarer services are also more available. So In the past, Player A might have been a supplier to Player X, Y, and Z. But now Players X, Y, and Z do things on their own, because they either got more efficient at self-sustaining their needs or decided being wealthy is a new core competency for their gaming. There is also the fact that they might have most the items they want now. Some people at the top of the food chain will say something like, “I only look for interesting/utility items now.”

This doesn’t mean we aren’t listening. Just painting a picture of some of the other areas you might not be thinking about. The weighting/padding update was something in the works for years. I know someone mentioned that they felt that was a response to this thread. That’s not the case for this at least.

I think a lot of this tailspin started with Ebon Gate announcements, which now that Duskruin is technically over, I can announce some of that information. I’ll do that in the next day or so.


Wyrom, PM


Date: 09/01/2017 01:16 PM CDT
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
“Some people at the top of the food chain will say something like, “I only look for interesting/utility items now.”” — Wyrom

I heard a rumour that Ardwen is starting to collect +50 cudgels, one of each type of wood in the game….

.

.

<flee!>


Date: 09/01/2017 06:49 PM CDT
From: OM1E5GA
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
<drained 67101622 silver.>

Comas are your friend… I realize that’s prolly a cut/paste, but they’re still you’re friend and I’d still like to get my hands on the fool that failed to integrate them into large numbers in the game.

Starchitin

PS No, I don’t care about whatever technical reason prevented it.

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.


Date: 09/01/2017 07:17 PM CDT
From: BRANDTJRT
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
>>Another facet in all this is a lot of silvers are removed on a daily basis. People use silver-based services like the NPC locksmith or town merchants. You might go, Wyrom, it can’t be THAT much. Well in the last weeks, town merchants (like the armory or the grocer) drained 67101622 silver.

Oh wow, that’s a lot.

I wonder if Edwina knows this when calculating alimony payments…
_ _ _
Wyrom gestures at you, causing you to explode.


Date: 09/01/2017 07:25 PM CDT
From: SIMU-WYROM
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
>>Comas are your friend… I realize that’s prolly a cut/paste, but they’re still you’re friend and I’d still like to get my hands on the fool that failed to integrate them into large numbers in the game.

Don’t worry, after Duskruin I’ll be in a coma.

Yes, that was just a copy/paste, most systems in our game don’t apply commas. I also realize I said “last weeks” which should have read “last 2 weeks.”

>>I wonder if Edwina knows this when calculating alimony payments…

I get this reference!


Wyrom, PM


Date: 09/03/2017 09:54 AM CDT
From: CHUCK3B
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
>So, like what kind of examples do you have about having “new” ways to spend silvers on?

>You took away silvers tied to EG digging and games.

This is a HUGE fallacy. Yes the digging cost silvers but you always MADE MORE SILVERS THAN YOU SPENT. It was never a silver sink.


Date: 09/03/2017 10:58 AM CDT
From: CHUCK3B
Subj: Re: Where oh where has our GSIV game gone?
><Offer feedback (after the fact). Tell us where to improve.>

>Why? It just gets poopooed when we give it and you announce 8-9 months later that you’re not only continuing what we were complaining about >but expanding it to MORE events.

People regularly mistake asking for feedback with “we’ll do exactly what you say you want in the feedback”. Not just here-I see this problem in other businesses.

Feedback is information that helps inform further development and change. It doesn’t determine what that change will be. And it shouldn’t.

In terms of poo-pooing, I don’t see a lot of that. But gms are people. They aren’t perfect in their responses. Sometimes they DO get defensive-or (more often) come off as defensive when they aren’t trying to be. It can be hard to explain one’s reasoning without sounding like you’re defending something. Sometimes it really is just explaining where they are coming from.

My take on what they’ve said is:

(1) The EG model just wasn’t sustainable since the necessary investment in time wasn’t paid for by the participants. We can complain all we want but the fact is, it costs them resources to do these things. They took a loss for years on that model at EG and it’s not viable to keep doing that.

(2) There’s a LOT of development going on in the game, including buggy system fixes-and not just new pay venues.

(3) As microtransactions have risen I’ve seen a very definite acceleration in development. Me, I’m very happy to see it. Something has to pay for this development-that’s our pay events. Our monthly sub fees are important but they just aren’t enough.

(4) You don’t need to attend a pay event to take advantage of a pay event. Both fluff and mechanical additions filter through to the entire player-base. It is one reason the silver economy matters as someone else eloquently pointed out.

(5) The basic game is roleplaying in a hack-and-slash environment; you make your own balance between the two. None of that requires attendance at the pay events. Even outside events this is a great environment for us.