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Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Recharging with Rodyn Potions

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Monday Night in Zul Logoth, the secret recipe became public to make magic items Mage Rechargeable temporarily! Clunk tells the story, then in the next message, GM Necios interprets for Clunk… 🙂 Read at: http://bit.ly/2qXYDW3 Also, this was announced on April Fool’s Day by GM Viduus, how sneaky was that?!

http://bit.ly/2Fbbd9y

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle

Date: 04/01/2018 10:06 PM CDT
From: GS4-VIDUUS
Subj: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging!
Infuriated by the rising costs of reagents and enchanting materials, wizard guild masters at the local Wehnimer’s branch took to the streets to vent their frustrations. The protest turned violent when merchant guild representatives hit the streets to silence and mock the mages who might cut into their profits. Chaos ensued as the mages lost their tempers and unleashed fire and fury on the snooty merchants and their wagons. At day’s end, many a merchant was battered and bruised from staff and book, and at least two wagons were reduced to ash. Several wizards were seen running away from the scene carrying bags of loot and merchandise. The local constable has been dispatched to track down the stolen merchandise, but admits the chances of recovery are slim. When asked the total loss of goods suffered in the incident, the merchant’s guild representative responded, “the goods are easily replaced, but the recharge trade secrets, RECHARGE TRADE SECRETS are gone!” before rushing off in tears.


There now exist wizard master level “rodyn” potions that will convert any magic item into mage rechargeable items for a small window of time (60 seconds). During this time a wizard may use an orb prepared with 517 to charge the item using the same rules that GM-Merchant characters use for charging items. Meaning no chance of failure (assuming the item hasn’t deteriorated to the point of not being chargable verifiable via merchant messaging on 405) and much lower mana costs (1 mana per charge) than traditional mage charging. Creation of this potion will require a high-level and rare ingredient, but will produce a potion with 5 pours, allowing upwards of 200 charges from a single non-rechargeable item at nominal risk.

Viduus


Date: 04/02/2018 04:53 AM CDT
From: DARCONAS
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging!
Really awesome! Great new addition!

However, please please please don’t make this ingredient as rare as greater essences…I’ve killed over 3-4000 elementals in the bowels and confluence and only found 2!!! in the entire year or so its been released. That’s beyond absurd.


Date: 04/02/2018 04:57 AM CDT
From: DARCONAS
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging!
Oh wait…is this another april fools thing? The timing on this is april 2nd for me already…


Date: 04/02/2018 03:32 PM CDT
From: LORDEVARIN
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging!
It’s a buff for Wizards, of course it’s a joke.


!>tell child to be quiet
The child cries, “I don’t wanna!”


Date: 04/02/2018 10:22 PM CDT
From: NEWHALLJ
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging!

The other April Fools ones were funnier.


Date: 04/02/2018 11:28 PM CDT
From: JADZIABLUE
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging!
This was effective because it sounded almost plausible. Almost!

Signed,
Raelee and her Strings

>Speaking to Zyllah, Alyias says, “See? Raelee knows all.”


Date: 04/03/2018 01:44 PM CDT
From: DAID
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging!
> The timing on this is april 2nd for me already…

That was true for many of them for me as well, but I’m in the UK so I could infer it was still April 1st somewhere in North America, probably.


Date: 04/13/2018 03:38 PM CDT
From: TRIPLEGAME226
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging!
Oh man, I thought they had finally come to their senses about what a pile of garbage they reduced 517 to years ago, and were actually giving us a buff that was both useful and didn’t require 8000 ranks of water lore for once.

I should know better by now though. 🙁

~ Methais


Date: 04/14/2018 08:51 AM CDT
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging!
“require 8000 ranks of water lore” — Methais

And see also Belkar’s sentiment, last frame:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0017.html


Date: 04/22/2018 09:33 PM CDT
From: GS4-VIDUUS
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging!
So….

mwahahahaha

Viduus


Date: 04/22/2018 10:23 PM CDT
From: NENMOONIA
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging!
@Viduus

I really did suspect it wasn’t a joke – the style was too different from the others. Can you give any hints on what the rare ingredient needed is to make this potion? Really awesome to see this


Date: 04/22/2018 10:31 PM CDT
From: GS4-VIDUUS
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging!
I really did suspect it wasn’t a joke – the style was too different from the others. Can you give any hints on what the rare ingredient needed is to make this potion? Really awesome to see this


There’s an event occurring that I wouldn’t want to spoil, once it’s completed I’ll give more details and clarify some points.

Viduus


Date: 04/22/2018 10:36 PM CDT
From: NENMOONIA
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging!
Thanks! Any idea when this event is? Just hope this rare ingredient is better than greater essences. After 2000 kills in the confluence, with major loot boosts almost all the time, I still haven’t found a single one.


Date: 04/22/2018 11:19 PM CDT
From: MEKK51
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging!
<Thanks! Any idea when this event is?

The event started tonight. We got half the recipe. We are hoping to get the other half tomorrow. It should be starting around 8pm EST in Icemule TC.

What we have so far is:

Instructions on preparing a proper Rodyn Potion
Step 1: Add water
Step 2: Add 2 doses of ground ayana leaf
Step 3: Add 2 doses of essence of water
Step 4: Chant…


Date: 04/22/2018 11:32 PM CDT
From: NENMOONIA
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging!
Very neat – anything to do besides just searching in the library? Not quite yet mastered so seems like unlikely to be able to help with this.


Date: 04/23/2018 07:43 AM CDT
From: TRIPLEGAME226
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging!
>So….

>mwahahahaha

>Viduus

https://i.imgur.com/HoYp1cA.gif

~ Methais


Date: 04/23/2018 10:27 AM CDT
From: ROBERTSM8
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging!
Can you clarify GuildMaster? That technically only requires 125 ranks and mastery in General. I assume this is a potion and will require you to be a Master in potions? Or do you need to be a Alchemy GrandMaster (mastered all 3 skills)? Do you have to have the actual title of Guildmaster, or do you just need the requisite skills (Master in ….whatever the answer is)?


Date: 04/23/2018 11:24 AM CDT
From: GS4-VIDUUS
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging!
(Master in ….whatever the answer is)?


Master in potions will do.

Viduus


Date: 04/24/2018 11:56 AM CDT
From: WARLORD1871
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging!
the faintly glowing cores from the Confluence won’t go in the alchemy cauldron to create the recipe

only the faintly glowing core provided during the release event by the NPC worked once, but the recipe can’t be duplicated with player materials
neither the NPC provided faintly glowing core nor the Confluence faintly glowing cores alchemy examine as being a suitable ingredient, if that matters

Fyrentennimar

Quote: “Jaynah says, “This is more fun than rolton tipping and blood eagle ridin combined.””


Date: 04/24/2018 06:43 PM CDT
From: GS4-VIDUUS
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging! – faintly glowing cores
All,
Some of you have reported that you’re using faintly glowing cores and the recipe isn’t working. When updating the plinite logic I missed the fact that there are ranges of cores produced, and several common varieties default to “a faintly glowing core” description. The version needed by the recipe is not a common quality one. For context, one way to think of this is a mage rechargeable emerald vs. a normal emerald, from the description they appear to be the same thing, but have different functions.

You can currently tell if your “faintly glowing core” qualifies by using ALCHEMY EXAMINE on it. If it shows as an alchemy ingredient, then it’s the rare variety, if not, then it’s just a common one.

To make it easier to identify the rare versions of the cores I’m updating their descriptions to “an iridescent glowing core”. This should clear up some of the confusion. Old eligible cores should still work for the recipe. The corrected recipe using the new description is below.

Instructions on preparing a proper Rodyn Potion
Step 1: Add water
Step 2: Add 2 doses of ground ayana leaf
Step 3: Add 2 doses of essence of water
Step 4: Chant Charge Item
Step 5: Add faintly shimmering dust
Step 6: Infuse mana
Step 7: Add an iridescent glowing core
Step 8: Boil
Step 9: Seal

I apologize for any confusion that may have been caused.

Viduus


Date: 04/25/2018 07:59 AM CDT
From: TRIPLEGAME226
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging! – faintly glowing cores
>The version needed by the recipe is not a common quality one. For context, one way to think of this is a mage rechargeable emerald vs. a normal emerald, from the description they appear to be the same thing, but have different functions.

*looks at Scroll Infusion which is still mountains better while still requiring only cheap off the shelf components*

*looks at this*

Why do you guys continue to troll wizards like this? This is a serious question that I’d like to get an actual answer for. At this point based on almost everything new for wizards coming with insane requirements either via training (i.e. 587230423 ranks of water lore that almost nobody wants) or super rare drops while other professions get their equivalents pretty much for free, I’m honest to god convinced that you guys are trolling us now.

I want to make it totally clear that this isn’t a troll post. I’m being 100% serious.

If the claim is going to be made that we’re not being trolled, then someone please explain how this is balanced vs. Scroll Infusion, which is still better than anything Charge Item has to offer, which only requires off the shelf ingredients?

~ Methais


Date: 04/25/2018 01:33 PM CDT
From: GS4-VIDUUS
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging! – faintly glowing cores
*looks at Scroll Infusion which is still mountains better while still requiring only cheap off the shelf components*

*looks at this*

Why do you guys continue to troll wizards like this? This is a serious question that I’d like to get an actual answer for. At this point based on almost everything new for wizards coming with insane requirements either via training (i.e. 587230423 ranks of water lore that almost nobody wants) or super rare drops while other professions get their equivalents pretty much for free, I’m honest to god convinced that you guys are trolling us now.

I want to make it totally clear that this isn’t a troll post. I’m being 100% serious.

If the claim is going to be made that we’re not being trolled, then someone please explain how this is balanced vs. Scroll Infusion, which is still better than anything Charge Item has to offer, which only requires off the shelf ingredients?

~ Methais


First, as I’ve said in other venues. This potion was a side project of mine. Done on my time in addition to my other responsibilities. It was never billed as, or intended to be, a magic bullet for 517, and the rare drop wasn’t some last minute surprise, it was there from the beginning. Any fundamental changes with 517 would have to occur at the spell level, not through some alchemy addition.

On 714: If you were to compare this potion to an equivalent item in scroll infusion, then there would need to exist a mechanic that allowed sorcerers to charge permanently locked scrolls, which only merchants can do at the moment. As far as I know, nothing like that exists for players, not even an auction item.

Viduus


Date: 04/25/2018 02:37 PM CDT
From: THORNBROOK
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging! – faintly glowing cores

Does this work on mage rechargeable items as well?


Date: 04/25/2018 03:14 PM CDT
From: GS4-VIDUUS
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging! – faintly glowing cores
Does this work on mage rechargeable items as well?


Yes, though you’d probably only want to use it on a greened rechargeable item.

Viduus


Date: 04/25/2018 03:18 PM CDT
From: THORNBROOK
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging! – faintly glowing cores

>>Does this work on mage rechargeable items as well? me

>>Yes, though you’d probably only want to use it on a greened rechargeable item.

>>Viduus

Thanks I assumed it would but…well assumptions. Depending on what the market price for the core ends up being I could hope to also use it to catch up on charges on my couple nice MRs instead of just 2/day with my recharging crystal.

I do have a greened giggler orb that prompted my question. Will the total charges degrade on a greened MR degrade the same way heroism spoons would?


Date: 04/25/2018 03:37 PM CDT
From: GS4-VIDUUS
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging! – faintly glowing cores
I do have a greened giggler orb that prompted my question. Will the total charges degrade on a greened MR degrade the same way heroism spoons would?


It’s item dependent. Scripted items like giggler orbs generally have their own built-in degradation rules. If an item doesn’t have those built in rules, then it will default to the same system other magic items (like heroism spoons) use where it just deducts a set amount.

Viduus


Date: 04/25/2018 03:42 PM CDT
From: TRIPLEGAME226
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging! – faintly glowing cores
>On 714: If you were to compare this potion to an equivalent item in scroll infusion, then there would need to exist a mechanic that allowed sorcerers to charge permanently locked scrolls, which only merchants can do at the moment. As far as I know, nothing like that exists for players, not even an auction item.

I wasn’t aware that this was just a side project. That said, there’s a high likelihood that all the work you did on it is barely ever going to be used because the requirements are too high/rare.

The 714 comparison you made though…most of not all scrolls generated by the treasure system can be charged by a sorcerer with off-the-shelf reagents, and that’s on top of normally hard to access spells being much more widely available on scrolls than on rechargeables.

I don’t see how the two can be compared in that context, due to more spells being widely available on scrolls than on any sort of rechargeable magic item.

This is unfortunately another instance of a really great idea being dead on arrival due to its insane requirements. Kind of like 512/Shatter. Great idea that was murdered by insane requirements.

This seems to be something that plagues wizards far more than any other class, at least since the Elemental Lore Review started wrecking us.

Your effort is appreciated, but the requirements for it need to be revisited if you want this to get the use it deserves.

~ Methais


Date: 04/25/2018 04:42 PM CDT
From: GS4-VIDUUS
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging! – faintly glowing cores
I think there are valid arguments to be made in a 517 vs. 714 discussion, however I also think there are also a lot of misconceptions floating around.

>>and that’s on top of normally hard to access spells being much more widely available on scrolls than on rechargeables.
>>I don’t see how the two can be compared in that context, due to more spells being widely available on scrolls than on any sort of rechargeable magic item.

Case in point, which spells do you feel are “widely available” through scrolls vs. rechargeables, and when you say “widely available” do you mean via merchants, stock treasure system drops, or a combination? Be specific on this.

>>Your effort is appreciated, but the requirements for it need to be revisited if you want this to get the use it deserves.

This particular addition was never intended to be a common use item.

Viduus


Date: 04/25/2018 05:18 PM CDT
From: VEYTHORNE
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging! – faintly glowing cores
>Case in point, which spells do you feel are “widely available” through scrolls vs. rechargeables, and when you say “widely available” do you mean via merchants, stock treasure system drops, or a combination? Be specific on this.

All of them.

Here is a list of my most desired, stockpiled (treasure system drop) scrolls:

(211) Bravery x11
(215) Heroism x7
(219) Spell Shield x4
(303) Prayer of Protection x7
(307) Benediction x4
(313) Prayer x2
(606) Phoen’s Strength x3
(1119) Strength Of Will
(1605) Arm of the Arkati

It doesn’t matter which spell you want compare, as every spell is going to be more widely available via scroll than via rechargable.

You can usually find any of these scrolls in the player market at any time. The same cannot be said of mage rechargable items, and when you do find a MR item with these sorts of spells they’re going to cost a lot more than a scroll would.

The problem is that every scroll is rechargable, where only a small percentage of items with spells are MR.

Every item with a spell would have to be made MR to compare, and even then I still imagine the scrolls to be more common due to drop rates.

An alternative would be yet another alchemy recipe that will turn any item into a MR item, without all the “merchant perks” that the Rodyn potion provides. Access would still be a problem, but at least when one is found, you could get more use out of it. The ingredients for this new recipe would need to be found OTS or incredibly common.


Date: 04/25/2018 05:42 PM CDT
From: TRIPLEGAME226
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging! – faintly glowing cores
>I think there are valid arguments to be made in a 517 vs. 714 discussion, however I also think there are also a lot of misconceptions floating around.

Like what? I don’t know all the ins and outs of 714, but from everything I have seen, it seems very straight forward and not plagued with the ridiculousness that wizards have to deal with.

>Case in point, which spells do you feel are “widely available” through scrolls vs. rechargeables, and when you say “widely available” do you mean via merchants, stock treasure system drops, or a combination? Be specific on this.

When I say “widely available” I mean primarily via treasure drops. While not super common, it’s not exactly rare either to find scrolls with spells like Phoen’s Strength or Heroism or 219 or whatever on them. And often times when you do find one, they usually have multiples of the same spell on the scroll, worth 20 charges each after Scroll Infusion.

I’ve found tons of scrolls over the years with 2+ Phoen’s Strength or 219 or 613 Heroism or whatever on it, for example. Nearly every mage rechargeable item I’ve found that wasn’t blank had some trash spell in it like Purify Air.

And then there’s the fact that scrolls can come with up to 5 or 6 spells on them, whereas any magic item, rechargeable or not, never comes with more than 1 spell.

The treasure system is much more generous with scrolls than with other magic items as far as spell variety, and Scroll Infusion is much more flexible with keeping them charged than Charge Item is. But the main problem is spell availability with 517, not so much the charging process itself.

Putting 517 on par with 714 would in my opinion require magic items as a whole should be opened up to recharging similar to how scrolls are with 714 where any fresh drop can be charged as long as it hasn’t been 714’s equivalent of locked, and the new addition to 517 with the cores should be used just to eliminate any failure chance or degradation during that recharge.

Even if those things were to happen, Scroll Infusion would still be much better simply because scrolls can hold up to 6 spells, whereas magic items can only hold 1. Even moreso if you want to add high end items like scroll combiners into the mix, but since only a handful of those exist it’s not worth factoring in.

Is there something I’m missing here that would make 517 blow 714 out of the water and be all overpowered? If so, please share what that is. Otherwise I’d really love to know why 517 remains so far behind 714 in pretty much every way possible. I’d even go so far as to say that Scroll Infusion is even better, or at least on par with pre-nerf GS3 517. Which I have no problem with. I’m not trying to get anyone nerfed, I’d just like to see wizards brought back up to par without unreasonable requirements. This goes beyond just Charge Item, but this wouldn’t be a bad place to start.

If every magic item that dropped were mage rechargeable, would that be considered overpowered? If so, then why aren’t scrolls considered overpowered for the same reason?

If it wouldn’t be considered overpowered, then why are MR items such rare drops, even moreso one with a good spell like 606/613/215/219/etc.?

TLDR: Every treasure drop scroll is rechargeable. 99.9% of non-scroll magic item drops aren’t. How is this considered balanced?

~ Methais


Date: 04/25/2018 06:29 PM CDT
From: GS4-VIDUUS
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging! – faintly glowing cores
>>Like what? I don’t know all the ins and outs of 714, but from everything I have seen, it seems very straight forward and not plagued with the ridiculousness that wizards have to deal with.

Both have chances for item destruction and both have chances to become non-rechargeable on failures. Those failures just work in different ways/times. They have different processes for the actual sessions, but they shouldn’t be carbon copies on that front. What ridiculousness do you see wizards dealing with?

>>When I say “widely available” I mean primarily via treasure drops. While not super common, it’s not exactly rare either to find scrolls with spells like Phoen’s Strength or Heroism or 219 or whatever on them. And often times when you do find one, they usually have multiples of the same spell on the scroll, worth 20 charges each after Scroll Infusion.

I’m looking into this. The two systems should be roughly on par for generating the same variety of spells as they should use the same restricted/common lists. Specifically (since it’s on my more recent things to have looked into) things like heroism scrolls should have been fed, rather than been system generated. The systems and interactions with those systems can be complicated though. Something could be working overtime for scrolls, or flaking out for magic items, or it may just be easier to generate a heroism scroll and drop it into a feeder than it is to make a heroism ring.

>>The treasure system is much more generous with scrolls than with other magic items as far as spell variety, and Scroll Infusion is much more flexible with keeping them charged than Charge Item is. But the main problem is spell availability with 517, not so much the charging process itself.

In what way is scroll infusion more flexible?

>>Is there something I’m missing here that would make 517 blow 714 out of the water and be all overpowered?

It’s a matter of item removal. Scroll infusion is reliable and linear in it’s degradation of scrolls. With scroll infusion, it’s not a matter of IF a scroll will be removed, but when. Charge item is more of a game of chance. There’s a good chance that if you do everything correctly, you will have an item last forever, there’s a small chance it could blow up for no good reason. Scroll infusion will statistically give much lower amount of charges per item than charge item does.

Bottom line really. If you want the reliability of scroll infusion then item life has to be predictability finite. Your utility would get boosted, and the frequency that you use 517 would increase, but that means finite charges per item. So more item turnover.

Viduus


Date: 04/25/2018 07:20 PM CDT
From: VEYTHORNE
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging! – faintly glowing cores
>Bottom line really. If you want the reliability of scroll infusion then item life has to be predictability finite. Your utility would get boosted, and the frequency that you use 517 would increase, but that means finite charges per item. So more item turnover.
>Viduus

If the items were as common as scrolls are, that wouldn’t be an issue.

I don’t think I have ever used 517. So I would prefer a system where it’s actually usable.


Date: 04/25/2018 07:43 PM CDT
From: TRIPLEGAME226
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging! – faintly glowing cores
>What ridiculousness do you see wizards dealing with?

Mainly the small chance for magic items to be MR vs. all scrolls being infusable.

>The two systems should be roughly on par for generating the same variety of spells as they should use the same restricted/common lists.

It generates the same variety for magic items in general. The problem is magic items have a small chance to be MR vs. all scrolls being infusable.

>Specifically (since it’s on my more recent things to have looked into) things like heroism scrolls should have been fed, rather than been system generated.

Which other spells are supposed to be fed and not system generated?

>Something could be working overtime for scrolls, or flaking out for magic items, or it may just be easier to generate a heroism scroll and drop it into a feeder than it is to make a heroism ring.

And also because scrolls almost always have multiple spells on them, up to 6. A ring or medallion or any magic item will always only have one spell, another huge advantage for scrolls that certainly isn’t being offset by an increased drop rate of MR items with “good” spells. The only way to put magic items on par with scrolls in that regard is to make all magic items that drop be MR, and have multiple spells. Multiple spells won’t happen and nobody’s asking for or expecting it to, so what’s the harm in just letting all magic item drops be MR vs. the miniscule chance they currently have?

>In what way is scroll infusion more flexible?

I should have said convenient, also due to scrolls usually having multiple spells and magic items only 1. RUMMAGE gives scrolls a nice QOL too.

>It’s a matter of item removal. Scroll infusion is reliable and linear in it’s degradation of scrolls. With scroll infusion, it’s not a matter of IF a scroll will be removed, but when. Charge item is more of a game of chance. There’s a good chance that if you do everything correctly, you will have an item last forever, there’s a small chance it could blow up for no good reason.

You’ll have better luck winning the lottery than never having a MR item degrade into garbage or green or blow up. That small chance it could blow up for no good reason is going to hit eventually. A small chance for anything in this game is only a small chance on paper. If you do something enough times it’s going to happen sooner or later.

Either way if the trade off is something like linear degradation similar to scrolls, I’d be ok with it. Items usually turn to junk or blow up eventually anyway.

>Scroll infusion will statistically give much lower amount of charges per item than charge item does.

9328904738207342384023 spells giving 20 charges + whatever until it degrades into nothing is still better than 38740380 magic items giving more with a “small chance” of forever imo. Especially since they usually blow up eventually as it is anyway unless maybe it’s a wizard spell or some low level spell that’s probably castable on other people anyway and no one cares about.

>Bottom line really. If you want the reliability of scroll infusion then item life has to be predictability finite. Your utility would get boosted, and the frequency that you use 517 would increase, but that means finite charges per item. So more item turnover.

I think most would be ok with this unless you did something like require water lore or gave it some other pointless requirement.

~ Methais


Date: 04/25/2018 07:46 PM CDT
From: NENMOONIA
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging! – faintly glowing cores

Viduus, not sure what you’re selling but I can tell you there’s a hellavu big difference between spell availability in imbedded found items vs scrolls. I literally have a sack of almost 100 scrolls that contain GOOD and useful spells, several of them rares like heroism. And EVERY SINGLE ONE is rechargable via scroll infusion and containing multiple potential charges. As for magic items, its a pain first to find someone to sing to find out what spell it is since 405 basically sucks outside known. On top of that, since its only 1 spell vs 3-5 spells on a scroll, rarely does the item have a good spell, and rarely is any of them rechargable. In comparison to scrolls where you have 3-5 each time, the chance of at least 1 good spell is 300% better. That every single one is rechargable just takes the cake. That they’ll eventually degrade means nothing because I find them so frequently. Lastly, scroll management is tons easier than imbed management since you have to memorize somehow what item contains what, move items in and out to wear, and there’s limited slots for several locations.


Date: 04/25/2018 08:04 PM CDT
From: DOUG
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging! – faintly glowing cores
I’m watching this entire discussion with great interest. I see many good points. Very good points, in fact.

There’s an element of a side that’s missing, though, so I’ll spend a moment on that.

One of the mage rechargable elements we’re not discussing is the ability to create mage rechargable items directly. This happens through two primary vehicles – MR gems that can be jeweled into MR blank items; and the ‘uptick’ in blank MR items available in drops.

Without going into a significant discussion about limits of spell lists and discrete spells of interest just yet, I want to only point out that there is no parity from the scroll side. There is not (yet?!) a PC-scroll creation mechanism on the scale and availability of MR items today.

I believe the ‘greening’ of MR items has soured the realms on the overall utility of MR items. We now know that this is moderately manageable, but at announcement it left a taste that many simply refuse to consider such MR items to be of any significant value. I further believe the ability to create MR items of keen interest (see Veythorne’s list of highly useful scrolls for the spells themselves) is severely restricted – and I’d enjoy seeing some way to provide some relief there.

But the flip side of that coin, any improvements considered in that space at all, etc., would pretty much require considering a mechanism to allow PC-created scrolls to be born into the lands. And if you really want to compare which is more highly valued, consider what the characters of the lands would pursue first and foremost under these improvements — scrolls or MR items.

Doug


Date: 04/26/2018 12:28 AM CDT
From: MEKK51
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging! – faintly glowing cores
<would pretty much require considering a mechanism to allow PC-created scrolls to be born into the lands.

The advantage to scroll infusion is that everything you use for it comes from the alchemy shop. No getting someone to sing for orb gems, its an all around easier spell to use.

I think something like a ASSESS <gem> for wizards that allows them to tell if its an orb gem would also be super useful. I think to much dependency on one class for item identification is a bad move.

I would like to see MR item made more frequently and the spells in them relegated to spells that can’t be cast on others. I am fine with making all MR items degrade at a set rate to be able to see more of them released in the feeder.


Date: 04/26/2018 02:01 AM CDT
From: BRANDTJRT
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging! – faintly glowing cores
>>No getting someone to sing for orb gems, its an all around easier spell to use.

It might be neat if there was a guild shop (and also maybe via alchemy) item that could be used in place of the orb gems. Perhaps it has a higher cost, meaning if you went out to find your orb gems, it would be cheaper, but it would allow for much greater ease in performing the task.

Also I wish you could just cast 517 to get information without all that need for gems and preparation, like how you can with enchant now without any of that tempering and what have you.
_ _ _
Myasara says, “Raining rocks down on my city was not the best course of action.”


Date: 04/26/2018 08:16 AM CDT
From: NENMOONIA
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging! – faintly glowing cores
Before it sounds overly negative – first Viduus, realize that we all really appreciate your work on adding new features to wizards. That this was a side project really shows the extras you’re going thru and know that we all appreciate it. So from all wizards – thanks for showing some attention and giving us something new (without nerfs to anything to boot).

That said, I think the reason why you’re seeing negative comments really comes down to 2 things:

1) We all want to play with nice shiny toys (and this new ability is definitely a nice shiny one) but…you’ve made it nearly impossible for us to play with. Methias posted that he regularly kills 1000-2000 elementals PER DAY in the confluence, and he still only sees a greater essence once every 1-2 weeks. That’s almost 10k kills to get one…and this one is even rarer. I’ll never be able to kill that many and means I’ll never be able to get it. That’s a real downer.

2) We’re really looking for a reworking on 517 – its is just a really old style mechanic and just really doesn’t compare very well to 714. There’s a lot of wizard jealousy over how easy sorcs have with 735 and 714. While in theory the variety of spells that can be genned is similar, scrolls are just much more plentiful, have 3-6x MORE spells (and thus more likely to have a good one), easier to check, easier to inventory manage, and each one is rechargable. Especially since sorcerers 714 JUST got a big new buff with the addition of the SK scrolls which to be honest is almost useless without a sorc to infuse the duration. You mentioned 517 can create permanent items…well as a capped wizard with huge ranks of EMC/MjE, my first recharge session after 1+ year, I just greened a simple imbed with regular 509 strength, and also greened a MR mobility item. So the chance of failure is much higher than you give it credit for.

I think a lot of wizards are looking for a redo of 517 or imbeds in general in a way to make them more useful. My suggestions (don’t have to take each one)

1) Eliminate greening/item destruction like how enchanting has been changed to.

1a) At worse- a moderately difficult new recharge potion (like inky black difficulty), has all the same features of of grot but has zero change of greening/destroying the items but makes it more difficult to recharge.

2) 517 made to be more convenient, i.e. turn an orb gem into a mana battery that can be infused with set amount of mana (20 mana per 1k or something), and can rub it on an item to recharge until it runs out. i.e. slightly more like recharging crystals

3) better management of imbed spells – i.e. if each imbed used once, can be tagged by spell numbers so rummage or something can work with it

4) some thing about separating enhancives/crumbliness from it. Sometimes I find a nice mage rechargable persist item and then…bleh, it got a useless crumbly enhancive effect which means now I have to manage the inventory of that item now. This usually means its put in a bag and forgotten about. Maybe all mage rechargables are persist/persist?

I dunno – these may be bad suggestions but the point is that wizards would welcome a redo to 517 to make it more friendly and modern. Coming after such a major addition to scrolls in the form of SK items – we were hoping for something.


Date: 04/26/2018 08:43 AM CDT
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging! – faintly glowing cores
“it may just be easier to generate a heroism scroll and drop it into a feeder than it is to make a heroism ring.” — Viduus

Given the fact that many scrolls have 4+ spells on them, it is hardly surprising that we see a much greater variety when perusing them.

.

Now, if there were more MR items in the feeder that cast TWO spells upon activation… <grin>

.

.

Here’s the #1 thing I would do to help with MR items in the random generator:
“DROP from consideration both of the Minor lists, Major Elemental, Bard, Sorcerer, and Wizard lists. (Leave in any of the “cannot create with 420″ ones that would be allowed.)”

Those can already be created, on demand, by, uhhh, Wizards & Sorcerers & Bards.

Monk. Paladin. Good Ranger stuff (Self Control, Mobility, Camouflage), Empath and Cleric spells, & Arcane. Bring ’em on.

Oh, look! Six lists removed from possibility, six lists remain. Chances just DOUBLED at finding something nice…

.

The #2 thing I would do, would be to increase the chance of finding a buff/booster spell–like Blink, or Champion’s Might, which are useful–and reduce the chance of finding a ‘helper’ spell (like LimRepair, or Purify Air).

.

.

And, circling back to scrolls: consider this my obligatory re-request of the ability to Unravel/1013 on those suckers, not just magic items. SO much mana locked away in the paper… <weep>


Date: 04/26/2018 01:16 PM CDT
From: TRIPLEGAME226
Subj: Re: Mage GuildMasters Gain Merchant Charging! – faintly glowing cores
Opened probably close to 500 plinites over the past few days.

0 iridescent cores.

~ Methais

 

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