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GM Naos posts fusion projects started before change would not have additional difficulty

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GM Naos posts that fusion enchanting projects already underway when the changes happened would be ignoring the new difficulty. YAY!

http://bit.ly/2kBw9iq

Category: Game Design Discussions
Topic: Fusion

Date: 12/13/2017 10:37 PM CST
From: WARLORD1871
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
You already raised the price last year when you announced the impending change, now you are raising it again.

Fyrentennimar

Quote: “Jaynah says, “This is more fun than rolton tipping and blood eagle ridin combined.””


Date: 12/13/2017 11:41 PM CST
From: WARLORD1871
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
To clarify, I’m referencing Wyrom’s post #214 from 10/6/16 where he said “The only changes effective for Ebon Gate 2016 are extraction cost and the increased recharging cost.” So the price was already increased last year, which players noticed, and you’re trying to raise the price yet again from the already increased base.

Fyrentennimar

Quote: “Jaynah says, “This is more fun than rolton tipping and blood eagle ridin combined.””


Date: 12/13/2017 11:56 PM CST
From: GS4-COASE
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
>So the price was already increased last year, which players noticed, and you’re trying to raise the price yet again from the already increased base.

Oh, it looks like that change was already rolled in. So, no, the only effective change will be PRYing, then, as the recharge cost increase is already live.

Coase


Date: 12/14/2017 12:24 AM CST
From: BRANDTJRT
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
Will we ever see fusion orbs sold off the shelf? It’s great to be able to customize, but I certainly have some characters I’d consider using more with if lesser boosts could be bought that way.

That said, I’d prefer the shaman around all the time for extra fees, just like I’d like a town WPS guy, again with cost modifiers.

_ _ _
Wyrom gestures at you, causing you to explode.


Date: 12/14/2017 07:24 AM CST
From: DARCONAS
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
Is it just me or is everyone glossing over the biggest change – orbs now degrade WITHOUT BEING USED

with all other items from enhancives to temp crit/padding and etc, if you just store it in the locker, its fine and only start degrading from use. This new mechanic changes things completely. You buy it and store it even without using it? Its going to fall apart regardless. This is a horrible change. What’s the point of things like enhancive pauses if it’ll degrade regardless? It also means the items will have a horrible secondary market.


Date: 12/14/2017 07:58 AM CST
From: JOEKUPS
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
Not if you BUY BUY BUY a simucoin enhancive perservative powder! Now GMO free! 2000 simucoins to put an enhancive humidifer in your locker to keep your new style orbs from rotting away! BUT WAIT, THERES MORE! For the low cost of just $29.99 a month you can buy a new character slot , Ehancive characters, any enhancive on that character is considered charged and always working! Transfering a character to this new slot costs a one time fee of $500.

Wyrom says, “Ordim is the reason savants won’t be coded as well.”


Date: 12/14/2017 09:12 AM CST
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
“For the low cost of just $29.99 a month you can buy a new character slot , Ehancive characters, any enhancive on that character is considered charged and always working!” — </sarcasm> JoeKups

Given the variety of items out there?
Cloaks, backpacks, brooches, earrings (one- AND two-ear style), boots, and what?
In addition to weapons, shields, greaves (arm AND leg), helms, aventails.
Bows, quivers.

Just the sheer number of items, each of which can be boosting 2-4 things, some times?

.

Honestly? For “never run out of charges” (which pretty much by definition means “never degrade”), there’s an excellent chance that I would start a new character for thirty bucks. 🙂


Date: 12/15/2017 11:02 PM CST
From: ARSHWIKK
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
I better be able to at least finish my current fusion enchant on my mage – since I just sold my bow of 15+ yrs because I was replacing it with THIS one. My mage JUST got to where it is as easy as can be with nearly 150 wizard ranks too. You guys have a talent for timing when it comes to me selling certain things and then you all throwing a wrench in my plans to upgrade.


Date: 12/16/2017 03:45 PM CST
From: GS4-COASE
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
The previously announced fusion changes have now been released. These include:

Fusion orbs have been separated into three tiers (T1, T2, and T3). All currently existing orbs are T3.

T3 (“old-style” fusion orbs)

T3 orbs do not decay their enhancive bonus. T3 orbs, when damaged due to PRYing, will gain the functionality of T2 orbs. The net result is that the old shattering chance (complete destruction of orbs) and degradation of bonus has been removed. Instead pried-out orbs can be damaged. Damage chance of 5% when pried. Special merchant services will exist to allow for risk-free pries in exchange for a fee.

T2 (“new-style” fusion)

T2 orbs will degrade their enhancive bonus at a rate of 4% a month (real time) to a maximum degradation of 50%. For example, +10 would lose 0.4 bonus points per month (becoming effective only when a full -1 value is reached, so only after 3 months in the case of the +10 item would any degradation of the bonus actually occur). It would take 13 months to reach max degradation in most cases. Values of 1 would round down to 0.

T2 fusion orbs can be refurbished to full base bonus as a future merchant option.

Prying T2 orbs will have a chance to damage the orb, similar to T3. When damaged, a T2 orb will gain the functionality of a T1 orb (which uncaps the maximum degradation of the enhancive bonus all the way to zero). Further damage would increase degradation rate by 1% per month per damage cycle.

Fusion Enchanting and Ensorcelling

The enhancive item enchanting/ensorcelling penalty is now based upon the number of orb slots that the fusion item carries (rather than its currently orbed enhancive properties), so it will no longer be necessary to pry out the orbs while the item is being upgraded.

Coase


Date: 12/16/2017 03:52 PM CST
From: GOAT
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion

> The enhancive item enchanting/ensorcelling penalty is now based upon the number of orb slots that the fusion item carries (rather than its currently orbed enhancive properties), so it will no longer be necessary to pry out the orbs while the item is being upgraded.

How does the PP surcharge work now?


Date: 12/17/2017 09:27 AM CST
From: ARSHWIKK
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
I spent a yr getting my mage to where a 6x cast on this bow was easy…for only a 2 slot fusion. Overnight, in the MIDDLE of the 6x major, you guys change it.(edited)
he is flipping 99 with 150 wizard ranks, 2x AS, 2x MIU, 2x Harness power
just a 6x…
max everything, wizard guild workshop, familiar present, 0 enc, wound free, and even including an enhancive stat boost(edited)
You gesture at a flawless glowbark-veined longbow.
You sense that the longbow is one of your own projects, and it will not be ready to enchant for at least a day. It is on the third step of the enchanting process. You recognize the vibrant blue aura surrounding it as indicating a strong level of enchantment.

This enchantment will be very difficult for you under these conditions.

[If you would like to proceed with this enchantment attempt, prepare and CHANNEL the spell at the glowbark-veined longbow.]
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
are you kidding me?
5x going to 6x…

This is over the top for a 2 slot fusion and no empty 2 slot fusion should have become that much more difficult than they already were, ONLY 3 slot. In the very least you need to grandfather current enchant projects OR finish them to the final target enchant for us.

– Arshwikk


Date: 12/17/2017 10:14 AM CST
From: JOEKUPS
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
Nothing good or redeemable from this change.
The Dev teams needs to learn about modern gaming expectations and practices. Between this and the WPS lies/nerf its very sad to see them undermine all the hard work done by the people who build up the world in lore and actually add to the game, instead of taking from it.

Wyrom says, “Ordim is the reason savants won’t be coded as well.”


Date: 12/17/2017 06:39 PM CST
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
I’m curious if any of the GMs are willing to comment on things like:
– whether orbs are now (or planned to be) able to be found as treasure? (Rather than finding the item, and then having to wait for the Shaman.)
– whether orbs (of whatever pre-set value [maybe higher benefit/same level requirement, OR same benefit/lower level requirement]) are going to be available at events?
– whether there will be additional opportunities for the Shaman (as it sounds like is the case with the upcoming event), along the same lines as the more common possibilities for padding (from the WPS changes)?


Date: 12/17/2017 11:18 PM CST
From: AETHERI
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
I’m having similar issues. This enchant was considered trivial to me before the changes. It has no orbs, and is only 2 slot. There’s no reason this should have become THIS difficult.

You gesture at some elegant elven ringmail.
You sense that the ringmail is one of your own projects, and it is ready to be enchanted. It is on the second step of the enchanting process. You recognize the vibrant indigo aura surrounding it as indicating a strong level of enchantment.

Under the current conditions this enchantment will be difficult, but possible.

[If you would like to proceed with this enchantment attempt, prepare and CHANNEL the spell at the elven ringmail.]
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.


Date: 12/18/2017 12:04 AM CST
From: WARLORD1871
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
That is about how mine changed as well, before I thought I could possibly start straight on to 7x when I finish. Now i’ll have trouble finishing going to 6x

Fyrentennimar

Quote: “Jaynah says, “This is more fun than rolton tipping and blood eagle ridin combined.””


Date: 12/21/2017 10:12 AM CST
From: GS4-NAOS
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
Recent updates to the Fusion Arms system included normalizing the difficulty of enchanting Fusion Arms gear. Given the long-term nature of Enchant Item (925) projects, we have updated the system to ignore this difficulty adjustment for projects started before the release of these changes. This should all be transparent to players, but the change should be reflected in the messaging shown when the difficulty of your project is assessed via a cast of spell 925.

I have reviewed logs for all enchanting attempts performed since the release of the difficulty adjustment on 12/16/2017 and found no evidence of any failures on Fusion Arms gear.


Naos


Date: 12/21/2017 10:30 AM CST
From: PEREGRINEFALCON
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
>> I have reviewed logs for all enchanting attempts performed since the release of the difficulty adjustment on 12/16/2017 and found no evidence of any failures on Fusion Arms gear.

I’m trying to decide if I should be excited that you are poking around in the enchant item code or if you simply jumped in to address this one-off issue…

— Robert aka Faulkil

Due to the volatile atmosphere, random bolts of lightning can intermittently be seen streaking through the skyline.


Date: 12/21/2017 03:51 PM CST
From: GS4-AULIS
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
<<I’m trying to decide if I should be excited that you are poking around in the enchant item code or if you simply jumped in to address this one-off issue…

Always get excited when Naos breaks stuff. I mean, when Naos is around.

~Aulis
Platinum Co-Guru
Forums Manager
QC’er


Date: 12/21/2017 04:40 PM CST
From: PEREGRINEFALCON
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
>> Always get excited when Naos breaks stuff. I mean, when Naos is around.

Well yeah… that’s what I was thinking! 🙂

— Robert

Due to the volatile atmosphere, random bolts of lightning can intermittently be seen streaking through the skyline.


Date: 12/22/2017 05:55 AM CST
From: DARCONAS
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
So clearly this means that its not a bug and that there’s a huge nerf to difficulty of fusion items? That’s insane to have it go up what looks like 4-6 tiers of difficulty. What is it with these insane nerfing going on? Are you trying to drive away more customers?


Date: 12/24/2017 05:16 PM CST
From: ARSHWIKK
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion

Thanks, Naos.

-Arshwikk


Date: 12/26/2017 04:29 PM CST
From: MACILLUS
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
I REALLY try to stay positive and be supportive of the GMs and of new improvements. Yet, I’m struggling to see how this is at all an improvement – and I’m a pretty disappointed customer right now. Maybe I missed it. Can someone please answer as to how these changes supposed to make things better?

Negative effects to me, personally:

1. I’ve been saving up items all year to make orbs so I have an enhancive set for DR. Now, if I have orbs made at the shaman, they’re going to immediately start degrading… whether I use them or not? I don’t get it. Now there’s no point in saving orbs for future use, or for resale. And, it seems, the only way to improve them is some sort of merchant service, which we know nothing about? Until I have some idea as to the frequency and cost of this service (and the future availability of the fusion shaman), I’m abstaining from anything fusion. No longer seems worth it.

2. My capped mage enchanter now has a 45% chance of failure on a plain 6x-7x 2 slot enchant, where it used to be 3%. I’m now having to spend money on a fixskill (and nerf her combat abilities) just so I can work on my next planned project. I can see how not having to remove orbs would be an improvement to enchanting… except now it’s even HARDER than it was before. Why was this needed?

I really do appreciate all the effort put in by GMs to improve the game. I also think they could do a MUCH better job at marketing these changes. Someone please sell me on this new system, because right now I’m not buying.


Date: 12/28/2017 02:09 AM CST
From: DARCONAS
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
@Macillus there’s nothing to sell. A turd is a turd. This is a reflexive action because simu has flooded the markets with millions of enhancives/armor/weapon/items from their DR/EG/etc p2w cash grab and now they’re realizing they need to reel things back in before its even more out of control. Hence the new nerfing of things so that they can sell us back these things. Wait for an enhancive orb decay pause in the simucoin store any time now.

This entire thing is a complete disappointing and waste of time.


Date: 12/28/2017 12:13 PM CST
From: LEAFIARA
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
Madmountan’s post from last October is my experience too:

>Right now I am super stoked that I have completely ignored fusion gear.

I’m holding out hope that there’s a secret reason behind all this that’s going unrevealed. Like maybe all this is happening in order to make way for an awesome idea they’ve had planned for a while that wouldn’t be feasible to implement with old-style orbs around. I guess we’ll see, but in the meantime I do feel for all those who did invest in fusion.


Date: 12/28/2017 03:28 PM CST
From: KHARIZ555
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
I feel more like that than ever. I’ve still never owned a piece of fusion gear.


Date: 12/28/2017 05:16 PM CST
From: MENOS
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
I hate-hate-hate any system that uses annoyance to the player as a balance method. I also detest things with a chance for permanent item loss or that are based on real life time/cash and not anything character related. Enhansives already had two of those check boxes and now fusion has the third. Such a massive game system coded and for me it is relegated to use no more often than a ruby amulet. Pull it out for a fight with a storyline NPC and the rest of the year is sits in a locker gathering dust. Nearly game breaking if people pay cash for recharges or so annoying it is totally ignored in normal game play. It is no worse for me now than it was before the changes, but I rather it be good.

Sweet is the sound of the pouring rain,
And the stream that falls from the hill to plain.
Better than rain or rippling brook,
Is a mug of beer inside this Took.


Date: 12/28/2017 11:50 PM CST
From: GS4-COASE
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
Regarding enchanting, it was previously the case that fusion items could entirely bypass the entire enhancive item penalty that applies toward enchant/ensorcell attempts with zero risk due to how the PRY mechanic used to work (riskless pries after a week or so). Unfortunately, fusion items are entirely about -being- enhancive items and they should have had the same penalties as equivalent enhancive items. The fact that they did not was quite a serious design oversight and it needed to be fixed.

It should be noted that T2 orbs degrade to half their base value and then stop there. Once it hits 50%, that’s its actual permanent bonus. If you orb an item, we want to make sure that you (or someone) actually wants to make use of it in a fusion item right away, and not speculatively. We could have made all exactrations just extract half the bonus instead, but chose to allow players to have the opportunity to have some extra bonus for a year (which is a fair length of time), provided that it is actively being used. Refurbishments are an option, but its not really meant to be an upkeep service, but an actual upgrade service. A T2 orb extraction is an extraction to 50% of the bonus value being extracted, with a temporary bonus on top if it.

The reason why we needed to change how extractions worked is because it was becoming clear that players were increasingly seeing “vanilla” enhancive items as mere delivery vehicles for orbs rather than being actual items in their own right. Things like worn location, crumbly status, maximum charges, alternative item functions, weight, and so on are all properties of items that we try to vary to create items that provide interesting choices and character building “puzzles” and options. The ability to relatively trivially negate all those other properties to extract one property at its full value was a serious design flaw in fusion that needed to be fixed.

Duskruin put a lot of enhancive items out (and so does the treasure system), but the reason they can do so is because you often need to stretch a bit (or a lot) to actually use the items in their intended form. That is an intended part of the entire inventory system. If, instead, all those items’ enhancive propertiers are just harvest-able to place in a single optimized item, then that is quite a big unintended bypass of most of the inventory system. Fusion extactions, as previously handled, were not sustainable going foward, unfortunately.

Coase


Date: 12/29/2017 10:55 AM CST
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
(Aside: “a week”, was way too short a time frame for the initial risk-free prying, from a design perspective.)

.

Several points in this, Coase, that are worth looking at individually. How do bonuses from items work to turn into orbs to use for Fusion, and how do Enhancives in their native state get dealt with.

Given that Fusion has a limited number of spaces (at most, three items; each of which has 1 or 2 or 3 spaces, so a max of 3-9 depending on the gear you managed to get), you should anticipate those spaces being used for THE juiciest and most desirable attributes the character can lay hands on. This should come as no surprise to the designers.

Speaking for myself, I would be a lot more interested in using Enhancive items in their native state if there were tasty ones on them more of the time.
* Any one-handed weapon–which, if I’m being honest, usually Enhances its own weapon style–that also Enhances another weapon style (like a 1HEdged that enhances both 1HEdge & 1HCrush)… seriously, why bother? Anyone training Two Weapons is unlikely to also train in a completely different weapon style entirely, unless they are stupidly high in level… at which point the +8 weapon with +5 to this and +3 to that is meaningless.
* On the other hand, something like finding “a dagger that Enhances both Survival and First Aid” would be really nice… for skinning. Odds are it’s not going to be used as a weapon at all. (And “a hammer” of the same, for those stone creatures.)
* Pretty much anything of “low Enchant” with Enhancives that are “level 40” or higher. Which of those characters are going to use, hell, even a golvern weapon? “Plate armor” with “Swimming bonuses” are another thing that strike me as silly. “Helms” that boost “INFluence”–so they just cry out to a Bard to use, great! Head now covered for spellcasting armor hindrance…–fall into the same category.
* All of the things with three or even four Enhancives on them… that don’t tie together. (Especially weapons & shields that affect Arcane Symbols. Great! My hand is full, so now penalty…) The only thing those piddly little add-ons do, is make the cost to recharge the item, higher. Prime target for orbing. Now, if it was a pendant that gave +2 ranks of each of the Elemental Lores, now THAT would be tasty. Generally, though, I would far rather have fewer (like, two), more powerful–yet also closer to “level appropriate”–Enhancives from a single item than 1 pretty good one, and 2 or 3 more that are nearly meaningless.
* How about really NICE Enhancives–and maybe some good Enchant values?–on Feras items? Guaranteed to be short use, because feras. Make the ‘feras’ material absolutely prohibited from being turned into an orb. Feras runestaff, flare on every cast?

.

In actual usage?

My initial Enhancive targets were simple: Mana Recovery. (Because they were pretty uniformly cheap to acquire.) The biggest ones seem to be in runestaves, so I just carry around a couple extra and swap in the field whenever I need to ‘mana pulse’, then swap back to actual equipment. They also make handy backups for if I get Disarmed.
For orbing, it was even simpler: I found all of the INFluence bonuses I could, because they were DIRT cheap. Presto, instant “longer medley duration” and “more effective Lullabye”.

Then I went for slightly more targeted effects, like “get me to 100 (later, 125) effective ranks of Mana Control” for that free fourth (or fifth) ‘mana spellup’ every day. Sure, I can only do it when I’m bestrewn with Enhancives, but since that happens “before every hunt” anyhow–precisely when I’m likely to do a spellup–it’s not terribly onerous.

Since then I have started paying more attention to things like “total ranks’ impact” (like the one pin I’ve got that gives a net +15 magical ranks == nearly 2 levels worth for runestaff defense); if I’m going to be wearing the item anyhow, hey, why not benefit in unexpected ways, also?

And I’ve also been more willing to track down odd items. Everyone finds it easy to max out their pin-worns, but locating both ear-worn (single lobe) and earS-worn (both lobes) is tough. Neck-worn is easy; finding an Enhancive cloak took me some doing.

I also became willing to scout out armor accessories (which have three big benefits going for them: frequently have multiple Enhancives, can also have flares or padding or spikes, and [like weapons and base armor] DO NOT CRUMBLE like pin- and ring- and neck-worn rings and necklaces and whatnot) for body locations already covered by the armor I’m wearing. Already covered, no additional spell hindrance…

.

.

And some new situations, arising from me thinking about this and also the new changes with Fusion orbs’ decay:
– Are there now, or could there be, Enhancives that just flat-out add to carrying capacity? Yes, I know that I can Enhance both STRength and CONstitution, and thereby arrive at the effect of raising my carrying capacity, but does that necessarily have to remain a stat that is only affected indirectly?
– How about an Enhancive for weight? Enhancive for height (might help offset Ambush difficulties)? BOTH directions–so tall races can get shorter [enhancing down], and not have to crawl in the tunnels, or heavy people get lighter [make that one a potion, to make it easier to drag on rescues]–just to cover all the bases.
– When the bonus conferred by a decaying Fusion orb drops, does the corresponding level requirement also drop?
– When a decaying Fusion orb is in an item, does the cost–via Bounty Points or silvers–to recharge it go down (because it’s a lower bonus) or is it always assessed based on the max possible (should the orb ever become repaired)?
– I think you just answered this: can an orb ever decay all the way down to NO bonus at all? (Your second paragraph in #413 says “down to half.”)


Date: 12/29/2017 11:01 AM CST
From: ARCHIGEEK
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
I would think the best thing you could do to encourage peoe to use a variety of orbs would be to completely separate risk (and charging cost) from the orb swapping process. Allow us to charge orbs instead of items and swap them with no risk, and you’ll sas a lot more people finding the 50% reduction as palatable. The alternative is you’re just probably not going to see a lot of people rushing out to make orbs now. They could be a lot of fun if situational mixing/matching was viable.


Date: 12/29/2017 02:10 PM CST
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
I doubt that would happen, to that degree, because anyone could script the “remove combat orbsr put in skinning orbsr skinr switch backr” process; as it is, they need to have the skinning item separate to stuff orbs into.

But I didn’t get the feeling from Coase’s post that they necessarily wanted people to use a variety of orbs, it looked more to me like they were looking to have people using a variety of Enhancive items (period); the orbs in Fusion just let people choose certain specific capabilities and then boost those directly with some additional effort.


Date: 12/30/2017 12:37 PM CST
From: LUXELLE
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
As I was singing to a bunch of enhancives, I realized that the new world of fusion orbs seems to be at odds with itself.

1. They’re going to degrade … and will need to be replaced more often
2. They’re going to degrade even sitting in a locker waiting to replace the one that is degrading in use

This entire switch only works if the fusion shaman is a good deal more available than once every year. Or 14 months, in this most recent appearance.

I’m ok with being newer to GS and late to the fusion party, it stings, but … it’s life.

I may not be so ok with fusion being a no-win situation because you can’t even save an orb to replace the one you used up.

I’ve got to go into the office today and … I guess tonight, I will see if I can make a couple multi-million silvers decisions before the shaman packs up.

I really do wish I had more information to make that decision with, however.

~L.


Rohese: “… the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)”
;tune towncrier

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Date: 12/30/2017 12:45 PM CST
From: VANKRASN39
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion

to everyone feeling shut out of fusion, there are A LOT of older orbs out there. maybe post what you’re looking for in the appropriate places and people will dig through their inventories


Date: 12/30/2017 02:40 PM CST
From: MWESTERBECK1
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
>The reason why we needed to change how extractions worked is because it was becoming clear that players were increasingly seeing “vanilla” enhancive items as mere delivery vehicles for orbs rather than being actual items in their own right. Things like worn location, crumbly status, maximum charges, alternative item functions, weight, and so on are all properties of items that we try to vary to create items that provide interesting choices and character building “puzzles” and options. The ability to relatively trivially negate all those other properties to extract one property at its full value was a serious design flaw in fusion that needed to be fixed.

Some enhancive items can’t be anything other than vehicles for fusion. Some have multiple bonuses that are not useful for some characters or make no sense on the item. I once found a quoit that had +3 Harness Power bonus. I shouldn’t have to explain everything that is wrong with that. Squares are not going to prioritize things like Lore and Harness Power over things like Combat Maneuvers and Dodging. Let me give you an example of a “bad” enhancive weapon. Lets say I found “an ora-edged glaes halberd” that gives +6 Harness Power ranks and +4 Elemental Lore, Water bonus. Squares are only going to see a 3x weapon and say “meh”, ignoring the enhancives completely. Pures will like the enhancives, some less than others, but will say “no” because they will not want to use a 2-handed weapon that isn’t a runestaff. Of the Semis, Bards are the ones most likely to care about the weapon but will probably think “I wish that was Air lore and it wasn’t 3x”. Then they will shrug and go back to using their much better Sonic Weapon. Fusion at least lets you save part of this weapon. Otherwise, it becomes a 35k note like so many other enhancive weapons before it.

I gotta be honest, I always thought the crazy spread of bonuses on enhancive items was done as a way to up-sell fusion items and the fusion shaman. “2-handed Warrior! You found a shield with Harness Power and Strength on it? Go to the fusion shaman and turn it into an orb you can put in your greatsword! Only at <insert Premium Event name here>!!” Regardless, this nerf to the system as a whole makes me want to ask “why bother?”. I’ve always felt that fusion was a “build your own enhancive” system for capped players beacause it takes a lot of effort and silver to fill a fusion item, they can only be a weapon, shield or armor, and all enhancive items come with an upkeep cost. Together with the limiting of perm’ing enhancive items, it does seem worth the trouble. Part of this is because enhancive items drop infrequently and finding a “good” enhancive item is pretty rare. There isn’t a way to make critters drop them faster either. All you can do is grind more and hope. Or you can buy them from others for lots and lots of silver. I rather have something on my gear that’s less of a pain in the butt than fusion.

>It should be noted that T2 orbs degrade to half their base value and then stop there. Once it hits 50%, that’s its actual permanent bonus. If you orb an item, we want to make sure that you (or someone) actually wants to make use of it in a fusion item right away, and not speculatively. We could have made all exactrations just extract half the bonus instead, but chose to allow players to have the opportunity to have some extra bonus for a year (which is a fair length of time), provided that it is actively being used. Refurbishments are an option, but its not really meant to be an upkeep service, but an actual upgrade service. A T2 orb extraction is an extraction to 50% of the bonus value being extracted, with a temporary bonus on top if it.

In a previous example, a +1 Spirit Recovery orb was said to give no bonus (50% rounded down) once it fully degraded. Are you saying that the orb has no permanent bonus under the new system? Sounds like anything that is a +1 bonus shouldn’t be orb’able because it doesn’t have a permanant bonus. I also wanted to ask about how De-fusion works with the new orbs. Will we get the current bonus the orbs has at the time or it’s “actual permanent bonus” when the De-fusion is performed?


Date: 03/17/2018 09:25 AM CDT
From: CAVEMANIAC
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
Just curious but have any merchants yet offered “risk-free pries in exhange for a fee”? Is this something that can be requested at GALD services or does it require a specialized merchant?


Date: 04/17/2018 08:37 AM CDT
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
“New-style fusion will never degrade their potency when pried from fusion, but will degrade at a rate of 4% a month (real time) to a maximum degradation of 50%.” — Coase

So I was thinking about GemStone at odd times–like you do…–and suddenly realized that I’m spending my efforts in the wrong place. Fusion stuff is going to drop to only 50% effectiveness over time, so I will have to EITHER keep finding the relevant merchant to reset it back up, OR finding new high-bonus items to orb.

But non-Fusion Enhancives… remain unaffected, right? No decay?
So my earring-worn plus ‘lebenty-whatever to BasketWeaving, is always going be plus ‘lebenty-whatever to BasketWeaving?


Date: 05/31/2018 03:20 PM CDT
From: KRAKII
Subj: Re: The State of Fusion
“The reason why we needed to change how extractions worked is because it was becoming clear that players were increasingly seeing “vanilla” enhancive items as mere delivery vehicles for orbs rather than being actual items in their own right. Things like worn location, crumbly status, maximum charges, alternative item functions, weight, and so on are all properties of items that we try to vary to create items that provide interesting choices and character building “puzzles” and options. The ability to relatively trivially negate all those other properties to extract one property at its full value was a serious design flaw in fusion that needed to be fixed.” — Coase

I’ve been browsing through the PlayerShops site quite a bit recently–and I’ll continue my repeated/repeat my continued thanks, to those scripters who keep it updated!–and have noticed some interesting points.
Not just suits of armor, as I had said in a different area, but pretty much all kinds of items, are perfectly willing to have 2 or 3 or even 4 boosts on them.
Weapons & shields frequently have multiples. Accessories frequently have some pleasant diversity.
Not too many containers seem to have terribly many, or very good skills, or too many multiples, though. (Unless those containers are the ones that people aren’t willing to sell…)

This is good. This means that someone could wear some armor and then layer on some accessories of already-covered areas, and get +more Enhancives (and possibly things like flares, or padding, or whatnot) for some additional juice.

And with the Fusion system visibly being able to support 6 slots (one merchant had an item stapled to his wall with six depressions), and I heard a rumour that this re-write gives us a theoretically achievable 10 slots… Well then there’s nothing at all wrong with various items having 2 or 3 or 4 different Enhancives on them.

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Some things are just silly, though, like one I saw in Galinroe’s shop: a +5 gornar weapon (with the expected Earth flares) and holy, Enhancing FOUR things… one of them requiring 45th level.
What 45th level character is going to use a +5 Earth-flaring weapon? Seriously?
And, talk about the trifecta of borking player-Enchant possibilities: you need an Earth pre-temper potion, an Enhancive pre-temper potion, and a Sanctified pre-temper potion.
SERIOUSLY?!?!?

Looking at that, can you honestly anticipate a player finding that, and NOT seeing what they might turn it into an orb for?

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Another thing that I’ve seen on Playershops is that there might be a +15 to something… and then like a +2 to something else, and +1 to a third thing. The numbers of items that have for example, “+9 to this and +9 to this and +8 to that” are pretty slim.

If we could, reliably, see items that had boosts, one each, in brackets of five, I think we would see more people wearing them.
Find something with three boosts? Great, it’ll be a 1-5, a 6-10, and an 11-15.
Four boosts on that one? Bully for you, it’ll be a 1-5, a 6-10, an 11-15, and a 16-20.

I think “twos” should have a chance to be of any bracket, and a random determinant as to whether the second one goes up or down the scale. (So you may find a 6-10 that also has a 1-5 [random said ‘down’], or a 6-10 that also has an 11-15 [random said ‘up’]. Obviously, 1-5’s can only go up, and 16-20’s can only go down, for their respective second one.)

Also, each boost should be of a different TYPE. Any given one could be of a weapon skill [to include Aimed Spells], a stat, a magical skill [possibly sub-divided by Realm (so you might find both a Spirit Lore and Spirit Mana Control on the same item)], a point type, a recovery type, a box-related type [traps, locks, perception], a money-related type [survival, first aid, trading], a miscellaneous type…

And “ones” should be of any bracket, BUT (since it’s the only thing that item does) possibly of a higher bracket and/or of a better skill. (There’s a lot of difference between “+17 to Dodging” [or “MOC” or “CMan”] and “+17 to Physical Fitness”. Or “+1 to Mana Recovery” vs. Spirit Recovery.)

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The problem is that we can only wear ONE armor. ONE helm. ONE aventail. ONE (each, arm & leg) greaves. ONE shield at a time (or a second-weapon). ONE runestaff or weapon at a time (unless you happen to two-weapon).

Now with that said, though…

(And this ties back to what I said in the other post, which happened to be about what I’d like to see at upcoming Duskruin runs.)
What would be really nice, would be if we could take <an item> to an NPC, and turn it into <another item>.

Say for example our earth-flaring holy Enhancive gornar mace up above. Picture that, instead, being some leg greaves.
– Oh, look! No longer care about the Enchant. (Nor the ability to Enchant it more.)
– Holy is nice; Clerics & Paladins can use it with UAC or Voln.
– Oh, look! Flares! Those two can use it against undead, and everyone can use it against living, with UAC or Voln.
– Neither weapons nor accessories (nor armor, nor shields, either) crumble when they run out of Enhancive juice, so there’s not even a shift in permanence there.
– Four different Enhancives, so possibly desirable to a variety of professions.

Or taking some of the nice runestaves that are out there, and turn them into arm greaves.
Or metal breastplate, being turned into a greathelm.
Or…

Weighting/sighting converts directly to padding. Flares are flares; holy is holy. Spiked would be spiked (if going to/from armor or shield or accessory) but lost if shifting to a weapon or anything else.

Want to turn it into a pocketed item? (Say, a ‘mace’ becomes a ‘sack’.) Weight-of-item becomes max-capacity; item must normally be able to be of that capacity. (So no “full plate/75 pounds becoming a small sack/7 pounds”.) AND you have to give up (your choice) one of the top two Enhancives. (And of course, all flares & spikes & such.)

Since we’re dealing with an NPC… feed him an orb gem, you can have it be a spell-casting item, too, if your chosen item-type is relevant (like a necklace, or band, or…). Give him a rechargeable gem, GET a rechargeable item.

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But the huge majority of Enhancive items that I see, I have less than no interest in.
Looking through Playershops, mostly the only thing I would be interested in would be something I could orb… or something I might buy on speculation that the above system or something like it might ever come to pass.

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“Things like worn location, crumbly status, maximum charges, alternative item functions, weight, and so on are all properties of items that we try to vary to create items that provide interesting choices and character building “puzzles” and options.” — repeating for emphasis

The problem is that too many “who cares” bonuses are ladled in with something someone might want, and if we’re going to be limited to “a really good one”, we want it as big as we can and paired as well as we can, and that boils right back down to Fusion.

A wand belt that adds to MIU and Aimed Spells? Okay, cool. (And I have actually seen those.)

A whole variety (noun, location worn, size) of containers that add to STRength bonus and CONstitution bonus? (i.e. carrying capacity) Oh, HELL yes.
Socks and shoes that add to both Dexterity and Agility? (i.e. “dodging, while carrying all that crap”) Likewise.

Instead we get a crumbly blank (that only holds average mana) and a disintegrating Enhancive for +6 1HEdged ranks…

 

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