Duskruin Booklets for Sale at 10.25million Starting Tuesday Night Wyrom Says

Sweet deal Wyrom. Two questions:

1. Is it limited to one per account?

2. Plat discount?

Keith/Brinret/Eronderl

Keith is correct

-Wyrom, APM

Keith is correct.

-GameMaster Estild

An excellent idea Wyrom.

Im excited for this. Thanks for listening, a definite step in the right direction!

Berbels shrilly exclaims, “Ise takings hims tos secretses lairses!”

Berbels grabs you and drags you east.

Well, looks like you guys really wanted that. We sold out pretty quickly.

Wyrom, PM

why so limited. it wasn’t even for sale for a half hour?

Can you tell us how many sold?

It was 99 booklets.

Wyrom, PM

>It was 99 booklets.

that’s it?

99 booklets of slips on the plinth,
99 booklets of slips
take one note
buy up the book
98 booklets of slips on the plinth

Fyonn’s player

Color me surprised.

.

And thus were a billion silvers made to vanish forever….

> It was 99 booklets.

That seems like it would certainly drain the 2 billion a month coming into the game rather quickly.

Are there plans to do more of this?

~ Methais

I wanted to see how it would go. At 99 booklets, it allows me to collect some information.

Wyrom, PM

>>I wanted to see how it would go. At 99 booklets, it allows me to collect some information. —Wyrom, PM

What happens if you find a way to marry simucoins and silvers? Wouldn’t that create a stable in-game economy? Is there really a downside to this?

I would support an experiment like this, even if it means reducing the methods/amount of silvers produced in game. Seems like a lot of other people would too.

So how did it go?

Keith/Brinret/Eronderl

Keith is correct

-Wyrom, APM

Keith is correct.

-GameMaster Estild

I think it’s pretty awesome that you allowed books for sale for silvers, so thanks for that! I for one would love to see more of this kind of stuff and would also like if other simucoin items sold for silvers as well.

I’m no economics expert, but I wonder if a fluctuating exchange rate would be healthy for both the silver and simucoin economy? So now that you sold 99 books at a fixed rate, why not sale more and just keep increasing the price until people are more inclined to buy with simucoins again? And then once so many books are sold in simucoins, start lowering the silver value of books? Would something like this work to stabilize the value of silvers while not affecting simutronics revenue too much from the loss of simucoin sales? I wonder.

At any rate, it’s nice to have a silver drain in the game like this that doesn’t have a negative aspect attached to it. Kudos.

>It was 99 booklets.

Next sale: 99 red balloons.

**********************
A quick flick of Wyrom’s wrist sends a dagger into flight!
The thorny barrier surrounding you blocks Wyrom’s attack!
One of the vines surrounding you lashes out at Wyrom, driving a thorn into his skin! Wyrom flinches slightly.

Great suggestion!

>>What happens if you find a way to marry simucoins and silvers? Wouldn’t that create a stable in-game economy? Is there really a downside to this?

>>I would support an experiment like this, even if it means reducing the methods/amount of silvers produced in game. Seems like a lot of other people would too.

I’ve been thinking a lot about this myself. The problem at hand of course is how to support a market economy with multiple currencies, both in-game generated and out of game generated (via micro-transactions).

I think one of the biggest problems Wyrom may face down the road in the future is the fact that for each event, the scrip/shells/whatevers don’t transfer event to event. They all however are generated from Simucoins (or will be with EG). He will have to balance denominational values per each event, which if I were in his shoes I would definitely not want to do.

The idea I have been thinking about is to abolish the scrip-like currency completely, and just have items cost Simucoins (don’t cringe yet, hear me out). Doing so means we would have one currency tied to all events that is transferable, and tied to a real dollar value. What we would do then is convert each event to a mixed model, where silvers are used for some things, and Simucoins are used for others.

For example (and this part is not totally fleshed out):

In Duskruin –
– Charge silvers for the arena.
— Make rewards from the arena silver currency based, such as lower level items as it is now (creates more silvers from the silvers you use to enter).
— Make some of the rarer drops also silver-item based… these are things like the moonshard pendants, which are character enriching, yet have an amount of rarity attached.
— Do some raffles for silver.
— Maybe do an auction or two for silver.
— Make the arena more about a leaderboard competition and rare fluff farm vs. a means to accumulate scrip-currency.

– Charge silvers for sewer runs.
— Same as above. Normal rewards have a chance to enrich your silver pouches. Rare rewards are for nice but not game-altering character enrichment.
— Have the sewer generate tokens for games/features of the event (see below).

– Charge Simucoin for the merchant items, certs, unlocks, services, etc.. Straight up.
— Almost everything in the current merchant inventory is useful long term, and could translate to a direct simucoin wallet purchase.

The current model creates a problem in that your dollars spent are tied to random chances. Speaking for myself, I would rather see my dollars tie directly to something I want, vs. a game of chance that costs time and effort where I might have a chance to reduce the value of my Simucoin wallet as it translates to the various scip-based currency. Why make the customer purchase an entry pass, then spend a number of hours, only to then spend the converted currency at a merchant? Cut out the middle part.

This allows GMs to create more fun-related games, activities, features that are silver based that a large population of players can sink their coins into, but ALSO allows them to make some really cool items that are both character enriching, and game mechanics changing (i.e. most of the stuff on the current merchant inventory) at the same time, thus creating an event that has appeal for both silver and Simucoin purchasers alike.

Erek has some very good ideas in my opinion.

As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, “Adventure” in my ear.

AIM: Kaight (Matt) GS4

It’s a fascinating subject. There are certainly risks associated with tying the currency to an alt-currency. Just look at any world currency that has been fixed to another currency. I would say the first question is, at what largely arbitrary rate do you tie the two currencies together?

This is not such an easy question, and deserves a lot of careful consideration.

Kerl

I’d have to disagree on the high end portion etc.

While I can somewhat understand a “game of chance” the whole thing is: we spend what.. 72 cents per entry (assuming premium and if my math isn’t off this morning) which is 100 simucoins. The arena takes longer in general – especially for us non wizards/sorcs that just plow straight through because of RT differences while those that swing weapons (or in some cases need to cast and swing) take a little longer – but it is still possible with the correct training. Some people are upset that the arena offers more bloodscrip – but I think that’s on them for choosing the quick way to get scrip.

Back on point… it’s a chance but it’s our own choice how we GAMBLE our 100 simucoin purchase. Up until this Duskruin, my paladin was not able to complete arenas because of how I was wanting to train (that’s on me) so I chose to do sewer runs and typically ended up between 160 to 180 (sometimes 200) BS per run plus silvers. The thing is – I would not want to be forced to spend my hard worked money to realllllly compete with other people’s money when I’ve been working hard to finish up the arena to get the maximum amount. It’s a kick in the groin. Why should I bother going to the arena or the sewer to get BS now if you’re going to just let people “buy” it with real money instead of earn the BS currency? I get that people buy silvers or buy BS for real money or sell things etc. But I think in this case you take away the fun and way to earn the scrip legitimately for those of us that don’t want to spend $1000’s of real money.

__________________________
– Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night

You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!

* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!

I think this could work really well if it was employed universally. As long as the price in silvers is set high enough over the secondary market conversion price it would prop up the value and confidence in silvers as currency. That leads to increased Simucoin buys from folks looking to sell dollars into silvers at a decent profit. Extra bonus that some silvers flow out of the game rather than being traded between player hoards.

Vhorg Emberskald

I understand the points here, but I really dislike the idea of just buying gear for Simucoins. Please, let me play the game as the intermediary to getting gear. That’s why Gemstone is fun.

~ Nuadjha, the Briar Fox

You inhale deeply upon your pipe, puckering your lips as you send out three rings of smoke before you, then puff out a small vine of smoke that darts right through all three which causes them to disperse in a hazy shroud!

>>Why should I bother going to the arena or the sewer to get BS now if you’re going to just let people “buy” it with real money instead of earn the BS currency?

This is why I am advocating abolishing the scrip based currency (bloodscrip, shells, etc.) completely. The arena and sewer would be gambles for in-game currency (silvers or silver-purchasable things) instead.

The other thing to note is that I am not advocating that Simu define a real monetary value for silver. That actually could carry with it some legal ramifications that would be tricky to overcome. If they said, “X,000 silver = 100 Simucoin” then they could have some legal trouble ahead of them. That’s not what I am suggesting. We need to keep them separate.

Don’t get me wrong, this is indeed fully a pay to win model. I would argue however that we already have one. The arena appears to be designed to yield between 160-240 bloodscrip per run, and the sewers appear to be designed to yield between 110-120 per run (this is just my own observation). The items or services bought by that bloodscrip already have a real dollar cost associated with them.

>>I understand the points here, but I really dislike the idea of just buying gear for Simucoins.

Yep, I recognize many will find this idea distasteful in some way. It doesn’t feel like a “Game” if we’re paying directly for items. That said (and really this is just my opinion and I fully respect yours), I don’t find it too much of a stretch beyond what we’re doing now. If Duskruin were converted to the model I propose, I imagine I would do roughly the same amount of arena time if the rewards were converted to something like unique titles, or items that I could show off based on win percentage (medals, awards, what have you) or other achievements. I recognize however that some wouldn’t.

If the medals/prestige/notoriety were similar to the Adventurer Guild, where you were ranked against orcs & trolls & automata & <fill in other creatures>, so you could display that you were a 10th-ranked troll-slayer in the Arena… that the kind of thing you’re talking about?

Go a step further, and–like the Adventurer Guild badges–confer some actual benefits at different (not necessarily all) steps on that advancement ladder… Maybe alternate between benefits applied at Duskruin (obviously only useful while the event is running), and benefits applicable at any time (so, while hunting the rest of the time, too).
Doesn’t have to be to the same level/customization as the Adventurer Guild badge, but some kind of bennies wouldn’t hurt.

I’ve been saying this for a while, but they need to just make 1 alternate currency. I think bloodscrip is probably the best to go with since it probably has the most out there. Have a conversion of other currencies to bloodscrip. Then you have no more conversion rates for the currently 3 alt-currencies (soon to be 4) and everything can be priced according to that one currency.

http://i.imgur.com/lsWPzG9.gif

Thank you for this sale, Wyrom. It worked for my situation. I had enough BS and Simucoins from last run that I was able to get those nifty Forest Armor certificates. This sale of booklets for silver lets me enjoy Duskruin a little bit more in my free time.

Chad, player of a few

This probably won’t happen. Eventually Simu would start losing money, and it would further exascerbate the issue of devalued silvers.

>Some people are upset that the arena offers more bloodscrip

For the record, I’ve never once heard someone complain about the difference in script earning.

In the early runs of Duskruin, the faster accumulation in the Sewers, albeit at twice the price, was a useful feature. These days, with no shortage of BS floating around, it’s not a high motivating factor-or at least not for me and most people I know who run the seeers (obviously I can’t speak for people I don’t know well).

I’d be strongly opposed to buying items outright with SCs. The feeling that you’re striving for something, working for it, is key to the psychological draw of the game. Yes, we buy things with real world currencies at times, and yes, spending SCs so we have the chance to otherwise earn the right to buy something is an abstraction. But it’s a useful abstraction that allows for the suspension of disbelief-the old key to a viable long term environment.

I agree – I have zero interest in buying items for straight up simucoins. You should actually earn your items.

I think that there should be a conversion from silvers to a simucoin item (such as the booklet or really any of the other simucoin products). This should be weighted in favor of Simutronics. Probably not in the reverse –

This would 1) provide a much needed silver drain, 2) help stabilize the dollar value of silver currency, and 3) allow the company to control how much silvers they need for their SC items. Really, it can help them target how much to charge for their simucoin purchases too (if players are willing to spend X silvers on an item, they can adjust the silver price and backwards calculate a monetary value that would be the most efficient to charge). Players would certainly use more simucoins and not have the taboo of spending actual money on transactions (until they get used to it or figure out that they can come out on top if they do this).

Would Simutronics lose money b/c everyone is spending silvers instead of buying Simucoins? Maybe a little in the short-term, but I imagine that the long term gains in game viability would outweigh this. As it stands, they have to offer considerable value to me (i.e. Duskruin type of events with enchanting/weighting/padding/auction level items) for me to actually spend my money on SCs.

Just to add my 2 cents to the conversation.

I don’t think we’ll see books/jars for sale for silvers in unlimited quantity. Why would they do that, when they are making cash for them?

I’m honestly surprised they offered 99 of them for sale in silvers. It was done as an experiment, but I’m not sure what the purpose of the experiment was supposed to determine. Maybe whether removing 1 billion silver from circulation would impact silver values?

Let’s say they do offer books/jars for sale, for silvers, in unlimited quantity. They would have to be priced high. And by high I’m talking about 25m per book/jar. (1 Book = 12500 – So 2000 per bloodscrip) They could go cheaper, 1.5k per would be 18.75m, but what do they get out of the situation? Anything cheaper than 1500 per bloodscrip and now you’re undercutting what players are selling them for.

>>I don’t think we’ll see books/jars for sale for silvers in unlimited quantity. Why would they do that, when they are making cash for them?

TL;DR: Crashing silver prices devalue gear and Duskruin.

If silvers have value, then every interaction in the game that removes silvers from it is essentially “earning money” for Simutronics.

If silvers do not have value, then every interaction in the game that removes silvers from it is neutral/worthless.

I am way more likely to play Gemstone if the first scenario is true. That is the whole reason that Duskruin Arena is so popular – they have created a game that is win-win for the player and the company. The player earns value through participating (up to twice what they put in, if you get a perfect arena score). The company accrues value by earning income from this participation.

If the player does not earn value from participating, they will not play and the company will not earn as much income from participation. If the silver market crashes completely, I am less likely to pay for the Arena – the purpose of which many are doing is to earn really cool gear that helps us earn (valuable) silvers.

We can illustrate this another way with a funny and somewhat fallacious logic anecdote-

Here is Gemstone economy prior to Aug 2017 Duskruin:
Silvers are worth money.(silver = money)
Cool gear helps me get silvers. (gear = silver = money)
Duskruin helps me get cool gear (DR = gear = silver = money).

Here is Gemstone economy status-post Aug 2017 Duskruin:
Silvers are neutral. (silver /= money)
Cool gear helps me get silvers. (gear = silvers /= money)
Duskruin helps me get cool gear (DR = gear = silver /= money)

However, this is not exactly true because the gear in and of itself may have value (IOW does gear = money?). It may help you not die as much in the game or it may look cool (which are somewhat valuable in and of themselves), but the fact that gear helps you get silvers does not contribute as much to its value.

(BTW, I’m not saying earning silvers is the only reason some of us play, but I am saying it is a component that is considered by a lot of us. Also, if silvers are worth more, more people are likely to play the game to farm them).

Solution: Sell the books on the LAST DAY of DR. you will lose very few of the sales. More people will try it that are learly of buying books for simucoins. It gives people something to spend coins on. If people want to drop tons of silver on them to hoard for next time so be it, but I doubt it will hurt revenue that badly when people have to stash them for 4+ months waiting for the next run and at least its removing the coins from the game/that the pawnshop is generating from the event.